fly high
Well-known member
Being suggested if the ball had been squared and some one else scored disallowed Luton's goal it would have counted. Ridiculous it was blatant handball, ref should have blown straight away.
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Football] Hand ball law
- Thread starter fly high
- Start date
Is it PotG?
Thrifty non-licker
Absolutely.
Law says 'next phase = goal' basically.
Law says 'next phase = goal' basically.
¡Cereal Killer!
Whale Oil Beef Hooked
The handball rule should be the same for attacker and defender, why should a handball given for an attacker but not against a defender?
Shooting Star
Well-known member
I had the same reaction. Absolutely ridiculous if true.
Dick Swiveller
Well-known member
- Sep 9, 2011
- 9,527
They have changed the rule to make it work with VAR. Coward's way out as it takes away subjectivity so the poor little lambs at Stockley Park don't have to make a call - just study 50 views to try and see if it hits someone on the arm.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,015
handball rules were fine weren't they? then they started meddling, didnt work, meddle some more, didnt work, so now we have different rules for different situations. its pathetic, just go back to start. and all this phase nonsense is just that, cant be right to change a decision based on what happens next.
see also offside.
see also offside.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
Yeah, I don’t see how that’s possible. He controlled it with his hand, which has always been handball. I think a lot of commentators and pundits don’t understand the rule which adds to the confusion.
fly high
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #11
Agree commentators & pundits aren't always the most knowledgeable but it was the most obvious handball you'll ever see so why did the ref let it go? It must be the law is an ass. How can it be accidental when the arm is straight up above your head & hand pats the ball down. If a defender had charged down a ball in the same way ref would have blown & probably booked the player so why not a striker? It's cheating.
EDIT to clarify: I'm not sure how much of this applies to the specific incident, some later posts indicate it would have been an intentional handball so an offence regardless of who scored, but there does seem to be some discussion about the general idea of the handball law, and some disparity around when contact between the hand/arm and the ball is an offence.
There has been disparity in the handball law before VAR - if you deliberately handled the ball to score a goal you got a yellow card, if your did it to stop a goal, you got a red card (I believe that still stands for deliberate handling, but no cards for accidental handling).
As springal says, the 'Accidental handball that leads to a team-mate scoring a goal or having a goal-scoring opportunity will no longer be considered an offence. ' - Note "no longer considered an offence". It was an offence last season. It was changed because people complained about all the goals being disallowed because of unintentional handballs in the build up (remember Jamie Carragher's rant against the law/VAR being used to for that injury time goal the first year VAR was in general use).
IFAB don't sit aound and look at perfectly good laws and think "how can we screw this one up?". They respond to complaints and trends. When things start becoming a problem or complaints about a law start getting too loud, they look at making changes. But football is a game with so many variables; with up to 22 players, a ref and a ball moving in varying speeds around a giant rectangle, with the potential for deflections, odd bounces, unintentional contact, etc, there are so many things that can happen, so many variations of what can occur in a range of situations. A single law fitting all circumstances is very hard to define, and then have it be implemented consistantly by scores of different human referees across a league. That's before we even look at different footballing philosophies from the players/spectators etc. (for example some people like more skill-based football and want to see technical players protected, others view football as a contact sport, a man's game, and want to see more "meaty" challenges, and more physicality).
Redesigning laws to address complaints is not as easy as you'd think. A lot of the complaints in this thread go back to the point above about unintentional handballs in the build up not counting if not by the goal scorer being unfair and that they should still count, when it's only not an offence now becuase people complained about it when it was an offence.
There has been disparity in the handball law before VAR - if you deliberately handled the ball to score a goal you got a yellow card, if your did it to stop a goal, you got a red card (I believe that still stands for deliberate handling, but no cards for accidental handling).
As springal says, the 'Accidental handball that leads to a team-mate scoring a goal or having a goal-scoring opportunity will no longer be considered an offence. ' - Note "no longer considered an offence". It was an offence last season. It was changed because people complained about all the goals being disallowed because of unintentional handballs in the build up (remember Jamie Carragher's rant against the law/VAR being used to for that injury time goal the first year VAR was in general use).
IFAB don't sit aound and look at perfectly good laws and think "how can we screw this one up?". They respond to complaints and trends. When things start becoming a problem or complaints about a law start getting too loud, they look at making changes. But football is a game with so many variables; with up to 22 players, a ref and a ball moving in varying speeds around a giant rectangle, with the potential for deflections, odd bounces, unintentional contact, etc, there are so many things that can happen, so many variations of what can occur in a range of situations. A single law fitting all circumstances is very hard to define, and then have it be implemented consistantly by scores of different human referees across a league. That's before we even look at different footballing philosophies from the players/spectators etc. (for example some people like more skill-based football and want to see technical players protected, others view football as a contact sport, a man's game, and want to see more "meaty" challenges, and more physicality).
Redesigning laws to address complaints is not as easy as you'd think. A lot of the complaints in this thread go back to the point above about unintentional handballs in the build up not counting if not by the goal scorer being unfair and that they should still count, when it's only not an offence now becuase people complained about it when it was an offence.
Last edited:
Surely it should make a difference whether the hand is in a natural position, as with penalty decisions. He may not have meant it, but his arm was up in the air, so it should have been a handball anywhere on the pitch IMO.
I think it should also matter where the ball goes - ie, it it goes in roughly the same place as had it not touched the arm (and possible gone on to hit the body instead), or if hitting the arm had a significant affect on where the ball went. With yesterday's goal/handball, he knocked the ball forward with his raised arm.
Regardless, I think we nearly all agree that something needs changing.