[Politics] Hammond's Budget

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Many people would say that low growth is what the planet needs. In that case what is important is proper distribution of current and future wealth. That means taxing wealth not just income. For example, higher inheritance taxes, increased capiral gains tax and annual wealth taxes. Just as one example restricting pension contribution relief on income to 20 % would bring in an extra 13 billion
a year. It also means cutting out tax havens and not reducing corporation tax below other european countries. Lots of scope for increased taxes without hitting poorer or middle income people. And with interest rates so low lots of scope for governments to borrow and spend on infrastructure etc which will also improve peoples' lives

Will not, has never, won't in the future, work. You can't over tax the wealthy.

 

[Machiavelli]

Many people would say that low growth is what the planet needs. In that case what is important is proper distribution of current and future wealth. That means taxing wealth not just income. For example, higher inheritance taxes, increased capiral gains tax and annual wealth taxes. Just as one example restricting pension contribution relief on income to 20 % would bring in an extra 13 billion
a year. It also means cutting out tax havens and not reducing corporation tax below other european countries. Lots of scope for increased taxes without hitting poorer or middle income people. And with interest rates so low lots of scope for governments to borrow and spend on infrastructure etc which will also improve peoples' lives

There's little I disagree with in this post, but would add that you ought to read -- and might like -- Piketty.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Will not, has never, won't in the future, work. You can't over tax the wealthy.

This is not really true, and half the battle with an entrenched mindset we have over a progressive economic model. A study in the US recently where different states have different taxation on the wealthy showed that migration from states that raised 'wealth taxes' didn't materialise. This mythology of the rich leaving, or not recruiting, or not producing did not materialise. Tax receipts didn't fall, and the states didn't see a drop in comparison to those with lower taxes. I tell you what does not work, trickle down economics because it can only be achieved with sustained significant economic growth. We are at an economic impasse because the economic model of cutting taxes to encourage economic growth isn't materialising, which is why year on year the economic targets have been missed because growth simply cannot make the tax receipt deficit. There are other models, and to use examples of short periods in the past as examples of it something not working is a mindset we have to get out of.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is not really true, and half the battle with an entrenched mindset we have over a progressive economic model. A study in the US recently where different states have different taxation on the wealthy showed that migration from states that raised 'wealth taxes' didn't materialise.

would there be a link to this? im led to believe there are considerable movements of people and businesses across the US to find lower tax (leading to very odd places for business to locate). applies elsewhere, there's a lot of French ex-pats in the UK to work for French banks under lower taxation. we also complain about tax havens, how can that be a problem if businesses do not migrate to other domiciles on tax rate? or the rich sportsman, businessmen who live abroad? not really sure how we can say wealthy wont move due to tax when there's so many complaints about them doing so.

 

[Bold Seagull]

would there be a link to this? im led to believe there are considerable movements of people and businesses across the US to find lower tax (leading to very odd places for business to locate). applies elsewhere, there's a lot of French ex-pats in the UK to work for French banks under lower taxation. we also complain about tax havens, how can that be a problem if businesses do not migrate to other domiciles on tax rate? or the rich sportsman, businessmen who live abroad? not really sure how we can say wealthy wont move due to tax when there's so many complaints about them doing so.

https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/nov/20/if-you-tax-the-rich-they-wont-leave-us-data-contradicts-millionaires-threats

Who makes the complaints about them doing so I wonder?

Anyway, my point was necessarily about taxing wealth, it was about economic policy of cutting taxation to raise tax revenues which only works with considerable economic growth. We are not predicted to have that growth, so the economic trickle down model simply does't work, as we have experienced budget after budget.

 

[portslade seagull]

Oh do behave. Labour haven't been in for a decade FFS.

Still recovering from it though

 

[Simster]

Still recovering from it though

Absolute nonsense.

They've had 10 years to put things right, I don't recall them saying "it'll take well over 10 years of slashing public services to sort out this mess" when they first campaigned to get back into power. All you're doing is giving them carte blanche to mismanage the economy, and not bother with trifling things like putting together a costed manifesto. Let me guess, you're pro-Brexit too. You'll still be blaming Labour in another 10 years time while the Tories continue this race to the bottom.

 

[beorhthelm]

Anyway, my point was necessarily about taxing wealth, it was about economic policy of cutting taxation to raise tax revenues which only works with considerable economic growth. We are not predicted to have that growth, so the economic trickle down model simply does't work, as we have experienced budget after budget.

thats a odd point to make when someone says "you cant over tax the wealthy". theres a significant difference between policy of raising tax and what you are now talking about, lowering taxes to promote growth. and there's no "trickle down" models, its not a recognised economic theory. the Laffer curve on the other hand is, which tells us that there's an optimum for tax rates and revenue, if you tax too high and you'll get less revenue. which is nothing special, its the same as price elasticty applied to most goods and services.

 

[Bold Seagull]

thats a odd point to make when someone says "you cant over tax the wealthy". theres a significant difference between policy of raising tax and what you are now talking about, lowering taxes to promote growth. and there's no "trickle down" models, its not a recognised economic theory. the Laffer curve on the other hand is, which tells us that there's an optimum for tax rates and revenue, if you tax too high and you'll get less revenue. which is nothing special, its the same as price elasticty applied to most goods and services.

Blimey, I haven't heard the Laffer Curve mentioned for a long time, Reagan's favourite tool that doubled the deficit, tripled government debt, and had to be undone by the next Republican president Bush snr. The biggest issue with the Curve is the assumption that the wealthy will become idle if taxed more. Fundamentally, all value in an economy is created by labour - the obligation to work to purchase the necessities in life. There are plenty of other reports to suggest Laffer was wrong by states with a higher income tax rate outperforming those with none.https://itep.org/states-with-high-rate-income-taxes-are-still-outperforming-no-tax-states/

It is easier to find critiques of Arthur Laffer's model than it is support to be honest.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Yawn !!! Still in chaos after the last Labour government

How do you manage to dress yourself in the morning? I don't support Labour btw.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Absolute nonsense.

They've had 10 years to put things right, I don't recall them saying "it'll take well over 10 years of slashing public services to sort out this mess" when they first campaigned to get back into power. All you're doing is giving them carte blanche to mismanage the economy, and not bother with trifling things like putting together a costed manifesto. Let me guess, you're pro-Brexit too. You'll still be blaming Labour in another 10 years time while the Tories continue this race to the bottom.

Yeah because the Daily Mail said it's their fault so he believes it. Never mind reality.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Oh do behave. Labour haven't been in for a decade FFS.

I thought the labour lost power in 2010?

 

[portslade seagull]

Absolute nonsense.

They've had 10 years to put things right, I don't recall them saying "it'll take well over 10 years of slashing public services to sort out this mess" when they first campaigned to get back into power. All you're doing is giving them carte blanche to mismanage the economy, and not bother with trifling things like putting together a costed manifesto. Let me guess, you're pro-Brexit too. You'll still be blaming Labour in another 10 years time while the Tories continue this race to the bottom.

Do you honestly believe Labour would have managed the last 10yrs any better ?? . We would be in a much worse state. And I'm not a blue but cannot support Labour under its current leader

 

[junior]

Explore The Black Friday Sale At New Balance Today

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think we can take it as read that the Economic legacy of the 2008 crash would have been pinned on the tories if they had been power as much as Labour are getting blamed. Suck it up comrades.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not a blue but cannot support Labour under its current leader

NSC: ABB. Anyone but blue.

 

[Mackenzie]

Explore The Black Friday Sale At New Balance Today

Cheers.

Just bought a new cricket bat for my son. 15% off at New Balance's black Friday event.

 

[ManOfSussex]

 

[ManOfSussex]

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Spoons has emptied early tonight.