guy that died during G20 protests. video

[clapham_gull]

Nope, nor me.

If there's anything worse than having PSD on your case, it's having PSD, the IPCC, and every national newspaper watching on in the background.

New pants time for that officer, I think...

and the rest of his uniform hopefully.

 

[attila]

I was at the G20 protests on the day, both at the Bank and at the climate camp in Bishopsgate. The attitude of the police varied enormously, often from individual to individual, and often with little bearing on what was actually happening at the time. I am NOT getting involved in political arguments on NSC and normally keep my political activities away from this board (and my Albion life) but this is obviously a very important issue and if, for information, anyone would like to read the blog I posted about the day - and the policing - it is here:

MySpace.com Blogs - Attila The Stockbroker (Capitalism? Told you so!) MySpace Blog


GREAT result last night. Bloody rearranged fixtures piss me off though. Had a gig booked ages ago, missed it. Roll on Saturday. I still have hope.

 

[drew]

It was an excessive use of force. This is not allowed by the police. It really is this simple Drew.

If you can demonstrate that 9 or 10 shielded and baton wiedling officers were under genuine threat from a 47 year old bloke walking away from them with his hands in his pockets then you have a case.

Where did I say it wasn't excessive. I said I didn't condone his actions. If he was trying to move him on quicker (and it seems to me the guy was dragging his heels more than a bit), the officer should have stood behind him and kept pushing with considerably less force.

There are posters on here who are continually spouting tripe based on 122 seconds of footage. Listening to 5 Live today there has been an endless stream of protestors ringing in claiming to have witnessed the police brutality yet none of them acknowledge the intimidation,albeit, by a minority of protestors. It seems that the whinging lefties and liberals believe they have the right to protest wherever and whenever they like without any interference from the Police. If all protests were peaceful that could be a possibility but they're not. A mindless minority are always hellbent on causing trouble. We had it with the Mayday riots a few years ago and it was not surprising that the Met would plan for the worse for a G20 summit bearing in mind what has gone on at other summits like this around the world.

Maybe the officer concerned can kiss his career goodbye but not before due process. If any of you muppets were put away for 10/15 years just because of the Police chose to do so without any evidence then there would be a national outcry but you don't seem to think it matters when the boot is on the other foot.

Christ, we don't even know if the assault was what triggered the heart attack. Hey, but I'm jumping to conclusions as I don't know how many of the posters on here are actually pathologists.

Personally and looking at the video on face value I can't give one positive comment on that officers actions. The guy was on his own with his hands in his pockets offering nothing more than perhaps a belligerent attitude in strolling off. Thats what it appears to me and most people anyway. Only one officer out of all those present chose to react and in my opinion violently assault the fella. I know I haven't seen what happened with this guy before the footage and he may well have been giving the serious come on to the coppers there for all I know. That is why we have the IPCC to look at ALL the facts and determine if there is a case to answer to. They will take into consideration all the befores and afters and not make a decision solely on the video evidence.

A voice of reason.

I agree, you are absolutely right. I didn't mean to imply the copper who shoved him has an excuse because I don't think he has one. All I meant was it will form part of the evidence and it isn't just about what the video shows. If anything if may prove the officer got wound up by the fella and deliberately had a pop at him, who knows. Either way I wouldn;t want to be in his shoes.

more wise words. What are you doing on this site?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Another genius police officer drags down the reputation of the rest of us in Newcastle today.

Doing 94mph in a 30 zone and killing a 16 year old. Nothing, nothing at all could justify the speed he was doing

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

f*** me i actually agree with you !, No doubt the old bill will wheel out the usual " one bad apple" defence.

I know it will be a long journey but I'm getting there.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Where did I say it wasn't excessive. I said I didn't condone his actions. If he was trying to move him on quicker (and it seems to me the guy was dragging his heels more than a bit), the officer should have stood behind him and kept pushing with considerably less force.

There are posters on here who are continually spouting tripe based on 122 seconds of footage. Listening to 5 Live today there has been an endless stream of protestors ringing in claiming to have witnessed the police brutality yet none of them acknowledge the intimidation,albeit, by a minority of protestors. It seems that the whinging lefties and liberals believe they have the right to protest wherever and whenever they like without any interference from the Police. If all protests were peaceful that could be a possibility but they're not. A mindless minority are always hellbent on causing trouble. We had it with the Mayday riots a few years ago and it was not surprising that the Met would plan for the worse for a G20 summit bearing in mind what has gone on at other summits like this around the world.

Maybe the officer concerned can kiss his career goodbye but not before due process. If any of you muppets were put away for 10/15 years just because of the Police chose to do so without any evidence then there would be a national outcry but you don't seem to think it matters when the boot is on the other foot.

Christ, we don't even know if the assault was what triggered the heart attack. Hey, but I'm jumping to conclusions as I don't know how many of the posters on here are actually pathologists.



A voice of reason.



more wise words. What are you doing on this site?

I am not suggesting you said it was not excessive. I was trying to say that whatever previous provocation the officer was under , at the moment of the incident........the 9-10 officers were under no threat whatsoever from him. Even if this man had abused the officers prior to the camera rolling it did not warrant the subsequent assault.

The plod have a difficult job and they can only really do their job successfully with our trust and the public on their side. To do their job they have to be seen to be fair. This, and other recent incidents, are really not helping their case. I appreciate that it is only a few cops who cause most of the problems but it would help if the bad apples were expelled. This would send out a very clear message to the public and make other coppers think twice about their actions. Typically they seem to, or the perception is, they keep their jobs. I also appreciate that sometimes things do go wrong....but I'm sure the public can differentiate between genuine adversities and blatant abuse of power.

Edna seems to have a very balanced and measured approach and people like her instill some confidence in me. Incidents like the one in London do not.

 

[Mtoto]

It hardly helps the police's image that, just like after de Menezes, their initial reaction to the news of his death was characterised by lies and twisted half-truths that are now being nailed one by one.

As for whether the heart attack was prompted by the assault, of course we can never know for sure. That said, since it seems he had walked home from work many times before without suffering an attack, but then dropped dead minutes after suffering an uprovoked assault, it seems more probable than not. The problem when it comes to prosecution is that it would have to be beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[Seagull Stew]

That said, since it seems he had walked home from work many times before without suffering an attack, but then dropped dead minutes after suffering an uprovoked assault, it seems more probable than not. The problem when it comes to prosecution is that it would have to be beyond reasonable doubt.

It will never be proven 100% that the incident caused the heart attack. But that's like saying that it can't be proven that had the guy not been pushed, he wouldn't have fallen over anyway. After all, he may have tripped.

What is more worrying, is the "rumour" that a medical student was prevented from treating him by the police. If this is the case, then this incident is beyond manslaughter, more bordering on murder. Whatever happens, a full and open public enquiry needs to take place immediately.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

One rotten apple spoils the barrel.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

One rotten apple spoils the barrel.

Not quite true, but a collection of fermented apples are a dead cert.

 

[NMH]

Wasn't there a police CHIEF today who openly displayed a secret anti-terrorist bust document on his way into No.10 Downing Street?

Are the ob in London completely rife top to bottom with desperately thick morons??

 

[aftershavedave]

so the fella who did this has now come forward.....quite incredible that the grauniad video clearly identifies a good few of the police there but it's taken that long for an admission of presence....shocking

 

[m20gull]

video footage of the guy walking away from police and being attacked from behind while he has his hands in his pockets...

Not exactly a complete description of his behaviour. There's "walking away with your hands in your pockets" and "deliberately obstructing the police". Is anyone really suggesting he didn't notice the officers in their high-vis jackets with their dogs? I would like to see the bit before that clip.

and what's with this "violent assault"? He was pushed and fell over. If he hadn't had a heart attack that would be the end of it. I would suggest there were plenty more "violent assaults" that day and worse ones too.

 

[Seagull Stew]

If he hadn't had a heart attack that would be the end of it. I would suggest there were plenty more "violent assaults" that day and worse ones too.

But he DID have a heart attack! It might have been a minor assault if consequences are taken out of the equation, but they're not.

Someone who drives a small stretch of road at twice the speed limit is treated in a different way to someone who does the same thing but kills someone in the process. Despite the actual crimes themselves being no different!

 

[The Spanish]

and what's with this "violent assault"? He was pushed and fell over. If he hadn't had a heart attack that would be the end of it. I would suggest there were plenty more "violent assaults" that day and worse ones too.

more and more i find it hard to believe that this is a website for football fans who went to a match before baddiel and skinner. what these fuckers attempt to get away with on a weekly basis and then claim provocation, section 60's and their sheer f***ing attitude has come back and bit them firmly on the arse, and about time too. I hope the cnt who did this is crying himself to sleep at night, all this 'its a tough job' bollocks goes out of the window in this case.

you want to act the thug then you get whats coming to you whether protestor or policeman. when we have to put up with legislation for football related offences based on mid 80s problems and the abuse of police power on the back of them then they can expect no sympathy.

i might go and f***ing baton someone and claim he was mouthing off at me and see what happens to me.

 

[Keeping The Dream Alive.]

The Spanish is back

 

[Barrel of Fun]

more and more i find it hard to believe that this is a website for football fans who went to a match before baddiel and skinner. what these fuckers attempt to get away with on a weekly basis and then claim provocation, section 60's and their sheer f***ing attitude has come back and bit them firmly on the arse, and about time too. I hope the cnt who did this is crying himself to sleep at night, all this 'its a tough job' bollocks goes out of the window in this case.

you want to act the thug then you get whats coming to you whether protestor or policeman. when we have to put up with legislation for football related offences based on mid 80s problems and the abuse of police power on the back of them then they can expect no sympathy.

i might go and f***ing baton someone and claim he was mouthing off at me and see what happens to me.

Yeah, man. It is a working class game for working class people. f*** the twat who walked in front of the police and was nailed without obvious provocation. Some of these wimps make me ashamed to be a proper football fan.

 

[The Spanish]

Yeah, man. It is a working class game for working class people. f*** the twat who walked in front of the police and was nailed without obvious provocation. Some of these wimps make me ashamed to be a proper football fan.

dont be silly. get a grip. the bloke was trying to earn a crust and got f***ing killed by the police. I am on his side, not trying to score points on a website against some stranger for my own self esteem.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Not exactly a complete description of his behaviour. There's "walking away with your hands in your pockets" and "deliberately obstructing the police". Is anyone really suggesting he didn't notice the officers in their high-vis jackets with their dogs? I would like to see the bit before that clip.

The questions that you have to ask there are: What was he obstructing them from doing, and was that a proportionate response given the situation?

I would suggest there were plenty more "violent assaults" that day and worse ones too.

I'd agree with that, they were hitting people in the head with their batons as well.



Regarding the 'one bad apple' point, there were a fair number of police watching that didn't seem surprised by that response.

What is more worrying, is the "rumour" that a medical student was prevented from treating him by the police. If this is the case, then this incident is beyond manslaughter, more bordering on murder. Whatever happens, a full and open public enquiry needs to take place immediately.

This was mentioned on BBC news today. It isn't just protestors who are saying it, the reporter described it as 'colleagues in the madia' who saw police baton charge protesters while the bloke was on the floor

 

[clapham_gull]

In case anyone is in any doubt here's another video

Met officer comes forward as Ian Tomlinson death investigation begins - Times Online