[Football] Guardian Long Read - Refereeing, the Impossible Job

[Guinness Boy]

The impossible job: inside the world of Premier League referees

Players, pundits and fans complain bitterly that referees are getting worse each season – but is that fair?

www.theguardian.com

Great read this if you’ve got the time. Includes Andre Marriner admitting to abusing the ref of his son’s under 9 game and, at the end, why do they do it?

 

[Happy Exile]

Was just about to share this. Interesting opener with NSC / RDZ "favourite" Darren England too!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Thank you. Interesting read. The problem isn’t referees. The problem is that most players, managers and fans have a complete inability to understand the bigger picture or the subjective nature of the game and most are also a bit thick. These people have created a toxic environment in which referees have to work.

 

[Ding Dong !]

Thank you. Interesting read. The problem isn’t referees. The problem is that most players, managers and fans have a complete inability to understand the bigger picture or the subjective nature of the game and most are also a bit thick. These people have created a toxic environment in which referees have to work.

Yep, in a nutshell.

 

[Deadly Danson]

A really interesting read. Thanks for posting.

 

[Machiavelli]

Thank you. Interesting read. The problem isn’t referees. The problem is that most players, managers and fans have a complete inability to understand the bigger picture or the subjective nature of the game and most are also a bit thick. These people have created a toxic environment in which referees have to work.

Aren't you the clever one.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

It''s an interesting read. It says when they applied VAR to an entire game they got seven penalties and three red cards. It's subjective. If you want it to be objective then we need a different game.

Everyone should try reffing a few matches. I did some at U14 level. The first one - it all went well and I thought that was straight forward - must be because I played the game and still watch a lot of football. Yea right. The next game escalated out of control. It is not an exact science.

Also many people who will shout at the ref do not know the rules.

 

[schmunk]

I like:

"Marriner made a note to monitor one particular Everton player who, he said, was prone to simulation. “You’re aware he’s been caught before,” Marriner told me, “so it’s in your mind that you must ensure that there’s sufficient contact for him to go down.” "

Cheating twat...

 

[fly high]

Also many people who will shout at the ref do not know the rules.

Some fans at the Amex are constantly screaming abuse at refs telling them they got it wrong but most of the time refs are right, exactly because these idiots don't know the rules.

 

[BBassic]

Really interesting read that.

I was floored by this, talking about the evaluation the refs get:

Marriner was left with a percentage accuracy of 97%, his lowest of the season.

97%!? We've seen performances that I don't think would rate more than 45% at best.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Really interesting read that.

I was floored by this, talking about the evaluation the refs get:

Marriner was left with a percentage accuracy of 97%, his lowest of the season.

97%!? We've seen performances that I don't think would rate more than 45% at best.

You probably haven’t.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

It''s an interesting read. It says when they applied VAR to an entire game they got seven penalties and three red cards. It's subjective. If you want it to be objective then we need a different game.

Everyone should try reffing a few matches. I did some at U14 level. The first one - it all went well and I thought that was straight forward - must be because I played the game and still watch a lot of football. Yea right. The next game escalated out of control. It is not an exact science.

Also many people who will shout at the ref do not know the rules.

Some fans at the Amex are constantly screaming abuse at refs telling them they got it wrong but most of the time refs are right, exactly because these idiots don't know the rules.

Laws

 

[BBassic]

You probably haven’t.

Yeah I was being a touch hyperbolic.

I was trying to make the point that, using our disallowed Palace goal as the example, we as fans would rate that performance way below 97%. Regardless of how much other stuff he got right. But that ref probably got upwards of 90% on his report.

I just find it interesting the levels of difference we have compared to the people who actually do the job.

 

[Eeyore]

Really interesting read that.

I was floored by this, talking about the evaluation the refs get:

Marriner was left with a percentage accuracy of 97%, his lowest of the season.

97%!? We've seen performances that I don't think would rate more than 45% at best.

That's the problem. It's down to interpretation. Yours is more subjective. See referee threads that appear, only when we lose.

The amount of times I see ref rage and look at a replay and realise that, at worst, it's 'umpire's call'.

Absolutely no ref this season has received my anger in an Albion match. I might disagree with the odd interpretation, but I think I've only seen one where there was a major error. It happens. Refs are human in a fast paced match in live time.

As some will see, I'm sick and tired of the abuse they get. They will always make mistakes. It's part of the game.

 

[Swansman]

Good it is brought up and people are going to keep it in their minds for five minutes before getting back to attacking the ref & approving attacks on the ref (from their own team, whichever it may be) with the motivation but this time he really deserves it or if he wasn't so shit it wouldn't happen.

Way to go is to suspend players and managers doing it and hope it has some effect on the fans. And not toothless touchline bans like RDZ got, but the stadium bans where managers are not allowed to communicate with their team at all during the game.

Good penalty for managers trashtalking refs before, during or after the game: x game touchline ban and x games of refereeing at grassroot level. The moans from most managers doesn't cost Premier League much, PL will always be able to find refs. Instead it is mainly at the expense of children not having officials for their games, and thus these managers need to get something back and learn a thing or two about the difficulties of refereeing.

For players, cards and suspensions for anyone physically going up front and personal with the referee, and cards for repeated swearing (no swearing at all is difficult with the levels of adrenaline and testosteron, difficult to do the "no tolerance" approach in that regard).

Managers is the hottest issue though. Their verbal attacks are not only incredibly cowardly (millionaires verbally and publicly humiliating referee performances after the games, knowing that the referees are not allowed to talk back) but also stirs up shit among fans and players. Probably 15 or so managers in the league who this season imo should have received stadium bans at various lengths. Like one manager said after being accused of not attacking the referee, they have a responsibility to protect the game.

 

[Monkey Man]

I'm as guilty as anyone as jumping off my seat and shouting "OI!!" at what at first seems like a horror tackle on one of our players and then braying for a card, only to watch the replay later and realise there was absolutely nothing wrong with the challenge.

Or insisting that a ball has gone out of play when all the evidence later proves it didn't. Or that an opposition player is timewasting, only for it to transpire they're concussed or have torn a ligament.

Refs have to make instant and important decisions with all this emotional crowd noise going on, and the in-your-face stuff from players and benches. To be honest it's no surprise that they make mistakes. The bigger surprise is that they don't make more.

 

[Washboard Didgets]

The impossible job: inside the world of Premier League referees

Players, pundits and fans complain bitterly that referees are getting worse each season – but is that fair?

www.theguardian.com

Great read this if you’ve got the time. Includes Andre Marriner admitting to abusing the ref of his son’s under 9 game and, at the end, why do they do it?

Hopefully they'll add this as one of the Guardian Long Read podcasts.

 

[Machiavelli]

Good it is brought up and people are going to keep it in their minds for five minutes before getting back to attacking the ref & approving attacks on the ref (from their own team, whichever it may be) with the motivation but this time he really deserves it or if he wasn't so shit it wouldn't happen.

Way to go is to suspend players and managers doing it and hope it has some effect on the fans. And not toothless touchline bans like RDZ got, but the stadium bans where managers are not allowed to communicate with their team at all during the game.

Good penalty for managers trashtalking refs before, during or after the game: x game touchline ban and x games of refereeing at grassroot level. The moans from most managers doesn't cost Premier League much, PL will always be able to find refs. Instead it is mainly at the expense of children not having officials for their games, and thus these managers need to get something back and learn a thing or two about the difficulties of refereeing.

For players, cards and suspensions for anyone physically going up front and personal with the referee, and cards for repeated swearing (no swearing at all is difficult with the levels of adrenaline and testosteron, difficult to do the "no tolerance" approach in that regard).

Managers is the hottest issue though. Their verbal attacks are not only incredibly cowardly (millionaires verbally and publicly humiliating referee performances after the games, knowing that the referees are not allowed to talk back) but also stirs up shit among fans and players. Probably 15 or so managers in the league who this season imo should have received stadium bans at various lengths. Like one manager said after being accused of not attacking the referee, they have a responsibility to protect the game.

I think I might just remember who was that one manager you're referring to
Broadly agree with this.

 

[Brovion]

VAR rant coming up. Ignore if you're not interested ...

It's a good article, and for me the nub is in the first section:

"The second problem was deeper. People mistake refereeing for an objective science, practised badly. But football is a physical sport, and judging whether each contact is within its laws will always involve subjectivity. Different referees will judge incidents differently, England said. Until we accept that subjectivity is part of the game, we’re never going to be satisfied. “The thing is,” England added, for many decisions, “there is no ‘correct’.”

"There is no 'correct'". There you have in a nutshell, from a top referee, why for the vast majority of the time VAR adds nothing except another layer of conflict and disagreement. The only area obviously where it can be correct is in judging offsides, where given sufficient magnification and sufficient study it can be judged whether a player was indeed micro-millimetres on or off - and even then most of us would argue that unless it is 'clear and obvious' to the naked eye the decision of the officials on the pitch should stand.

For the rest of the time, judging handballs, fouls, sending offs etc it's just added another subjective and time-consuming layer to the decision-making process.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

VAR rant coming up. Ignore if you're not interested ...

It's a good article, and for me the nub is in the first section:

"The second problem was deeper. People mistake refereeing for an objective science, practised badly. But football is a physical sport, and judging whether each contact is within its laws will always involve subjectivity. Different referees will judge incidents differently, England said. Until we accept that subjectivity is part of the game, we’re never going to be satisfied. “The thing is,” England added, for many decisions, “there is no ‘correct’.”

"There is no 'correct'". There you have in a nutshell, from a top referee, why for the vast majority of the time VAR adds nothing except another layer of conflict and disagreement. The only area obviously where it can be correct is in judging offsides, where given sufficient magnification and sufficient study it can be judged whether a player was indeed micro-millimetres on or off - and even then most of us would argue that unless it is 'clear and obvious' to the naked eye the decision of the officials on the pitch should stand.

For the rest of the time, judging handballs, fouls, sending offs etc it's just added another subjective and time-consuming layer to the decision-making process.

Offside is also a subjective decision about the precise millisecond the ball leaves the passers boot. This makes marginal decisions about the position of the receiving player also non scientific. There is no ‘correct’ in anything to do with refereeing a football match, apart from goal line technology. Widespread lack of understanding of this subjectivity re-enforced by the fake science of VAR has made the position of referees even worse. Once the refs have gone there will be no games left.