Grief tourists and the Diana Syndrome...

[Thunder Bolt]

Perhaps the roses for Ramadan was a poor example. It is more solidarity and it's their community. Although I question extending the hand of friendship too readily to a Muslim community that allowed Abu Hamza to use their mosque to recruit extremists and promote death to westerners but hey ho, if a bunch of roses from the Co-Op helps everyone get along far be it from me to judge.





Don't look at it as losing your hands but as gaining hooks.

It was a different mosque. There are two in Finsbury Park.

 

[rocker959]

I'm certainly all for raising money for victims and survivors of any tragedy but are we all getting a bit carried away with the public displays of grief and "solidarity". My hunch is people would not be doing such things as "roses for Ramadan" if they weren't guaranteed some kind of news or social media coverage.

I dunno, maybe I'm being too harsh but I want to hear the stories of what's really happening with enquiries, the stories of the emergency services. I want real news.
Since the death of Diana I do not like the way a large chunk of our nation handles public grief. I find it distasteful and frankly embarrassing.

Thoughts on the matter?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40343485

Agreed

 

[The Clamp]

It was a different mosque. There are two in Finsbury Park.

Im not sure about that. There are two mosques and flowers are being handed out at both but according to every newspaper report I have read so far and , dare I say it Wikipedia the mosque that was attacked is the same mosque Abu Hamza was cleric at. Are you sure you are not muddled because the one mosque goes by two names?

 

[Official Old Man]

I'm torn down the middle of this regarding the tower block. Yes it was/is horrific and yes people have lost everything, including friends and relatives and so yes they need help. I'm all for helping with funeral costs and other things. But the bottom line is I pay £500 house insurance for a reason. In my mind 'no insurance, no help' is my motto. WAIT, obviously there are exceptions like the funerals, but if my house burnt down would NSC get together and give me lots of money?

 

[The Clamp]

I'm torn down the middle of this regarding the tower block. Yes it was/is horrific and yes people have lost everything, including friends and relatives and so yes they need help. I'm all for helping with funeral costs and other things. But the bottom line is I pay £500 house insurance for a reason. In my mind 'no insurance, no help' is my motto. WAIT, obviously there are exceptions like the funerals, but if my house burnt down would NSC get together and give me lots of money?

I have no problem with offering financial help to the residents.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I'm torn down the middle of this regarding the tower block. Yes it was/is horrific and yes people have lost everything, including friends and relatives and so yes they need help. I'm all for helping with funeral costs and other things. But the bottom line is I pay £500 house insurance for a reason. In my mind 'no insurance, no help' is my motto. WAIT, obviously there are exceptions like the funerals, but if my house burnt down would NSC get together and give me lots of money?

If you had nothing financially already, how quickly do you think the insurance company would take to pay you? What would you do in the meantime for accommodation, clothing, necessities? You are talking about 'contents insurance' presumably, but that would only cover them for their lost property, where do they live in the meantime - insurance doesn't pay temporary rent. If you were in that position Brighton Council would have to provide emergency housing for you if you had no friends or relatives to stay with, and couldn't afford to just rent or stay in temporary accommodation.

Not sure you really grasp the difference between roof over your head and contents insurance.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I have no problem with offering financial help to the residents.

I think some people are so cozy, they really don't understand / perceive the issues other people have.

 

[The Clamp]

I think some people are so cozy, they really don't understand / perceive the issues other people have.

There's no question that if you're in a spot a bit of money helps. Especially if you have nothing. It's actually very expensive to have nowhere to go. Unless you and your family are happy to just sit on a bench somewhere being hungry you're gonna need some cash on the hip because you're going to be eating out for every meal since you have no kitchen, you're gonna be using laundrettes because you have no washing machine etc. It's expensive to be poor.

 

[Coalburner]

Can't fault The Clamp's definition of real poverty. Excellently and succinctly put.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Perhaps the last day of ramadan could become an annual public holiday as a mark of respect to the victims of the Finsbury park terror attack .

 

[studio150]

People deal with grief in many ways, and if you have lost a loved one in any these recent incidents, then I can see the need to visit the scene and remember the person and lay flowers or other personal items.

What I can not fathom out is why people with no link to those that have died need to go and do the same. I may be too cynical but I just see these people wanting to go, so that they might be shown on TV, or ultimately being interviewed on TV, but mainly to take photos to post on their Facebook page to share with their friends to show how righteous they are.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

The above...

It's trendy to "show you care, maaaan" - even if you don't, really.

We all care way too much what other people think of us, and social media puts you right in the shop window if you're prevalent on it.

Show your grief, shock and/or outrage in a way YOU feel comfortable with - not anyone else

 

[chimneys]

I think some people are so cozy, they really don't understand / perceive the issues other people have.

THIS with bells on. These were/are some of the poorest people in our country. I cannot believe some smug people on here honestly think their focus would be on contents insurance, when they've got the basics like eating/clothing/electricity/rent to already make their pittance stretch to.

 

[The_Viper]

It's virtue signalling and it's gross. It's just people desperate to stay relevant in a world full of distractions. Reminds me of this....







The only difference is the stakes are raising each time, so now to get on that level people have to donate money, and make a big song and dance, so at least out of their self obsession others are benefiting.

 

[Goring-by-Seagull]

Online

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

I'm torn down the middle of this regarding the tower block. Yes it was/is horrific and yes people have lost everything, including friends and relatives and so yes they need help. I'm all for helping with funeral costs and other things. But the bottom line is I pay £500 house insurance for a reason. In my mind 'no insurance, no help' is my motto. WAIT, obviously there are exceptions like the funerals, but if my house burnt down would NSC get together and give me lots of money?

You may pay £500 but I would not be at all surprised if the premiums there were much higher at Grenfall by virtue of it being a housing block on an estate. As usual, the poorest in society get penalised financially for living in deprived areas. Higher insurance premiums and key meters for utilities charged at a much higher rate. Additionally, there is also the possibility that the insurance might not pay out while there are question marks around whose responsibility the fire was, if at all.

 

[BNthree]

I'm certainly all for raising money for victims and survivors of any tragedy but are we all getting a bit carried away with the public displays of grief and "solidarity". My hunch is people would not be doing such things as "roses for Ramadan" if they weren't guaranteed some kind of news or social media coverage.

]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling

 

[marlowe]

I'm torn down the middle of this regarding the tower block. Yes it was/is horrific and yes people have lost everything, including friends and relatives and so yes they need help. I'm all for helping with funeral costs and other things. But the bottom line is I pay £500 house insurance for a reason. In my mind 'no insurance, no help' is my motto. WAIT, obviously there are exceptions like the funerals, but if my house burnt down would NSC get together and give me lots of money?

Remember if people only have paper records of their documentation including insurance policies, bank statements, credit card statements etc it wont be easy for them to immediately locate and identify their insurance policies as they will have been destroyed in the fire. Also immediate access to their bank accounts might prove problematic without identification as passports, birth certificates, utility bills, credit cards etc will also have been destroyed. With no documentation whatsoever proving who you are, identifying your bank accounts, insurance policies credit cards quick and ready access to funds is not that straight forward even for those who are insured and who do have money in their accounts.

 

[Tight shorts]

I think the OP has raised an interesting point which we had already been discussing in my home, with differing opinions. I think it's really useful to address these emotive issues rather than condemn people for raising awkward topics, or avoid them altogether. That happened with immigration and we got Brexit, so let's keep on talking. I agree with most of what's been said, as it's very personal how we feel and react after tragic events. I do think that acts of solidarity, regardless of whether online, help some people to feel a bit less powerless about something awful that's happened, and feel that they are doing something positive. I do also think that people who are more easily influenced by others, get caught up in a whirl of what's trending on social media regardless. That doesn't make them bad people. Finally, I think that the massive outpouring is genuinely because people think these are the "deserving poor" rather than the "undeserving poor" who "are workshy, lazy, waste money etc etc" and when we look at how rosy many of our own lives are in comparison, and think about the tragedy of the people in that tower, we feel compelled to do something to ease our conscience.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Im not sure about that. There are two mosques and flowers are being handed out at both but according to every newspaper report I have read so far and , dare I say it Wikipedia the mosque that was attacked is the same mosque Abu Hamza was cleric at. Are you sure you are not muddled because the one mosque goes by two names?

You (and Tommy Robinson) are 100% wrong.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/19/where...-welfare-house-where-attack-occurred-6718263/

Both Muslim Welfare House and the Finsbury Park Mosque are a short walk south of Finsbury Park train station.

Muslim Welfare House is at 233 Seven Sisters Road, N4 2DA whilst the Mosque’s address is 7 – 11 St. Thomas’s Road, N4 2QH