[Other Sport] Grid girls scrapped from F1 races..

[Thunder Bolt]

Men in Formula One are not employed for looking good. They are employed to drive cars fast (or design cars, or fix cars, or pay for them etc). I realise there are some women in those roles too, albeit not very many. That's probably down to existing gender preconceptions- whilst nobody stops young girls taking an interest in motor racing, or car design, there perhaps isn't much encouragement in those directions at a young age either.

But there are no men strutting around the grid in tiny clothes, vacantly waving signs at the camera, and nor I suspect are any being recruited. Which is, by definition, sexist (both to the existing women doing it, and also to the women watching on TV who might like the same opportunity to admire the male form as is afforded to male viewers with the grid girls).

My husband is an engineer. He recently updated his skills by qualifying in electronic engineering. He said the females on the course were the best engineers he had studied with.
Why aren't the girls wanting to be mechanics, engineers etc?

 

[Eeyore]

The thing is, I bet more people in this country would actually sign a petition about demanding this 'outrage' be reversed, than sign a petition about this country losing The British Grand Prix in 2 years time.

I did read about the potential loss of the Grand Prix. I think it's been at Silverstone for a long time from memory.

 

[Withdean11]

I'd suggest you have absolutely no idea whether they enjoy their jobs or not. It just suits you to assume that they do.

I'd suggest you have absolutely no idea if they enjoy their jobs or not either. It just suits you to assume they don't.

The ring girls i know DO enjoy their jobs. I hope for their sake they are allowed to continue doing so.

 

[Giraffe]

Men in Formula One are not employed for looking good. They are employed to drive cars fast (or design cars, or fix cars, or pay for them etc). I realise there are some women in those roles too, albeit not very many. That's probably down to existing gender preconceptions- whilst nobody stops young girls taking an interest in motor racing, or car design, there perhaps isn't much encouragement in those directions at a young age either.

But there are no men strutting around the grid in tiny clothes, vacantly waving signs at the camera, and nor I suspect are any being recruited. Which is, by definition, sexist (both to the existing women doing it, and also to the women watching on TV who might like the same opportunity to admire the male form as is afforded to male viewers with the grid girls).

So you’d hope Beckham would start covering up a bit more then.

 

[bhanutz]

It's not PC.... it's about not teaching young boys that young girls are just decoration.

I am sure I can teach my own son that....

Oh well Off to Southampton now.. Have a good evening debating...

 

[Giraffe]

I'd suggest you have absolutely no idea if they enjoy their jobs or not either. It just suits you to assume they don't.

The ring girls i know DO enjoy their jobs. I hope for their sake they are allowed to continue doing so.

Agreed.

 

[Pantani]

I must confess to being in the camp that if a woman or man want to parade around nearly naked who are we to stop them. As far as I aaware these girls do this of their own free will and enjoy it. Why stop them?

Plenty of men are employed for looking good. What is the difference?

How many women go on about photos of Beckham in his underwear. Should he be banned from doing this?

No!

Let people choose to make their own living. Women doing jobs, that some are now objecting to, have the right to self determination.

This has literally nothing to do with protecting Grid Girls from sexism. Why are so many people struggling to understand this? This is not about these individual women, of course they have chosen to do this, Bernie Ecclestone is not rounding up women to stand next to F1 cars against their will.

The issue here and in the darts case is that impressionable viewers/spectators are led to believe that all women can aspire to is to look pretty and stand next to a successful man. That is why this outmoded practice is finally ending. If you cannot understand this then you are a bit of thicket, imo.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Is this an over-reaction? Sex sells, beauty sells, glamour sells - these have been accepted as basic tenets of marketing for decades and are a main part of why the hostess industry exists.

If an attractive young woman wants to make a few quid as a walk-on girl / event hostess / flag bearer / prize giver then is it really so bad? In many cases there is an essential function being fulfilled that someone would have to do, so what is wrong with having an agency supplying women who are happy to do that work?

The President's Club was just plain wrong but F1 and the darts? Not so sure.

Nobody is saying that all womankind can ever aspire to is to be a hostess, and I really wouldn't be that bothered if we were taking about men in hot pants either.

 

[Bladders]

Men in Formula One are not employed for looking good. They are employed to drive cars fast (or design cars, or fix cars, or pay for them etc). I realise there are some women in those roles too, albeit not very many. That's probably down to existing gender preconceptions- whilst nobody stops young girls taking an interest in motor racing, or car design, there perhaps isn't much encouragement in those directions at a young age either.

But there are no men strutting around the grid in tiny clothes, vacantly waving signs at the camera, and nor I suspect are any being recruited. Which is, by definition, sexist (both to the existing women doing it, and also to the women watching on TV who might like the same opportunity to admire the male form as is afforded to male viewers with the grid girls).

Why do you think that is then?

The women add a touch of glamour, half naked men just looks camp. Do women find camp men attractive?

 

[sully]

I wonder what would happen if they tried to ban cheerleaders from American football? What's fing next? Cover up the arms, legs, head, or go one step further and go for full cover?
I'm afraid this country is slowly going crazy.

This country?

You know it’s an international sport, don’t you? And cheerleaders in American football is hardly “this country” either.

It’s a global realisation that it’s out of date and ridiculous.

 

[Hamilton]

Can't say I'm overly fussed, but nobody is holding a gun to these girls heads. Its their own free choice to take part, its a high profile worldwide sporting event, probably an enjoyable one for them to take part in, and not a bad thing to have on a CV if these girls are choosing to make their way in the "glamour industry". I don't really see why anyone of either sex should get offended by the choices others make in their lives.

Perhaps with the advent of more and more Grand Prix being awarded to arab states, there has been a cooling in enthusiasm from some quarters for attractive grid girls showing their legs, maybe that's been a factor here. Ultimately though, I couldn't really give a monkeys.

For me it is not about the 'holding a gun to their head' bit. It's about the relentless message that we keep sending out.

Nobody is suggesting that we should be banning female models - although the industry could do a lot to question itself on what it says about body image - but we can it least separate unnecessary female stereotypes from motor racing. We don't have half-dressed women to bringing the ball out at the Amex, and still 30,000 people manage to turn up and enjoy the game.

Delighted you aren't fussed by the way.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm offended (not really sure it's the right word in these circumstances- perhaps irritated is more accurate) for myself thanks very much, not for them. It's patronising of you to suggest otherwise.

It's a free country, and these women can of course do as they please, employment wise. I assume they're getting paid for it. My only point on this subject is that there are no scantily clad men prancing around the Formula One grid, and that once that changes, I'll stop my belief that the current arrangement is sexist and outdated.

What are you on about?

You can watch countless sports of men with far less on than these grid girls have on.

 

[Hamilton]

Why do you think that is then?

The women add a touch of glamour, half naked men just looks camp. Do women find camp men attractive?

Glamour? You need glamour? How do you survive 90 minutes on a Saturday?

Don't answer that.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Yes, but they are paid for their sporting ability, in the main anyway.

There are numerous examples. I'll start (and probably end with) promo girls who hand out product samples in supermarkets or are situated on stalls at numerous trade shows. Almost predominantly young, female, made up and dressed in a certain manner. I doubt that's a coincidence.

And just to be clear, I'm not arguing against the darts and F1 moves, and it was always a matter of time that the latter happened after the former. But society has long utilised exclusively attractive young women in a vast array of situations, and still does. And fit / "fit" young men in others.

An advertising industry which from its formative years was almost exclusively occupied by men, yes. When product advertising first became a thing however many years ago, the concepts of attractiveness and gender roles would have been conceived and promoted by those males, and many of those concepts (stereotypes?) still linger, even if we've moved on ever so slightly from the days of promoting ovens and hoovers solely with pictures of beaming housewives.

To be clear, I have no issue with notions of attractiveness being used to sell. Women pose in their underwear for adverts (for example) just as men do. That's life. My only issue here is that it's not an equal process, and that in the case of Formula One (and cycling, and darts, and others), only women are used in this way, which is pure objectification in my book.

Don't even get me started on the issue of SkySports presenters.....

 

[Bladders]

For me it is not about the 'holding a gun to their head' bit. It's about the relentless message that we keep sending out.

Nobody is suggesting that we should be banning female models - although the industry could do a lot to question itself on what it says about body image - but we can it least separate unnecessary female stereotypes from motor racing. We don't have half-dressed women to bringing the ball out at the Amex, and still 30,000 people manage to turn up and enjoy the game.

Delighted you aren't fussed by the way.

What relentless message are we sending and to whom?

 

[Hamilton]

What are you on about?

You can watch countless sports of men with far less on than these grid girls have on.

What? Swimming?

What channels are you watching?

 

[Lady Whistledown]

What are you on about?

You can watch countless sports of men with far less on than these grid girls have on.

The men you refer to are competing in the sport itself, as you well know.

They're not prancing around waving banners simply to promote the sport to dribbling men.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

stop being offended for them!

Come off it. Personally I don't give a toss either way about this, but I'd hardly start slagging off those who object. Huffing and puffing about the end of sport totty and accusing anyone who thinks its old fashioned as 'being offended for them' is pure broflakism.

Perhaps there are context issues here for the wistful. I am partly reminded of this mildly amusing joke. Fellow in court. Asked to make a statement on his own behalf. "There they were, all those naked women on the nudist beach, flagrant, and here I am, accused of masturbating, in the PRIVACY of MY OWN trousers".

 

[Hamilton]

What relentless message are we sending and to whom?

Ask yourself what message we are sending? Do a bit of research.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Why do you think that is then?

The women add a touch of glamour, half naked men just looks camp. Do women find camp men attractive?

Have I just woken up in 1950?