[News] Grenfell Tower tragedy was due to racism in London Fire Brigade says Doreen Lawrence

[Justice]

It has been mentioned, it was in the first inquiry.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3447420/...hat-sparked-devastating-grenfell-tower-blaze/

No cover up.

The other problem with fridges in this country is we still allow the back to be covered with flammable material to be sold if not newly manufactured. Basically although they were technically "banned" in July this year, you can still buy them on the high street or the internet,

It's such a concern of the fire brigade that Which Magazine (no less) simply refuses to review any that have a plastic back. They are instantly graded "Don't Buy".

I was not talking about the fridge more the circuit the fridge was plugged into. Two completely different things.

 

[DFL JCL]

I'm genuinely interested in your suspicions. Won't argue with you, just genuinely interested. I might learn something.

Fundamentally I 'suspect' that minority communities have been negatively impacted disproportionately by austerity measures in recent years. I believe the tragic events at grenfell can be traced back in some part to these austerity measures. Although not what I would consider to be evidence to entirely backup my suspicions the following article loosely supports this. Please note my use of the words suspect rather than believe. Please also note that the source of the article I appreciate can raise questions of impartiality. https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ed-racial-inequality-in-the-uk-says-un-expert

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Spot on

Yes ,not one of the PC gang on here wants their boat rocked .
regards
DF

 

[Guinness Boy]

So why say "but only yesterday the London Fire Chief herself has stated that the stay put advice was totally wrong for a building like Grenfell.
...
And who lives in buildings like Grenfell? Poor people and immigrants who are statistically more likely to be non-white."

It reads as though you're saying that the advice was wrong for a building like Grenfell, and people more likely to be in the building, so QED. If that wasn't what you were saying, I can't see what you were saying.

Then you need to read the post properly. It's perfectly obvious.

I'm basically saying exactly the same as [MENTION=10202]Not Andy Naylor[/MENTION] . There was no racism from the Fire Service, however, a building full of poor people was neglected to the point where it was a fire hazard and the Fire Brigade advice regarding such buildings was wrong by their own admission. I don't believe rich people are likely to live in such buildings. And it's statistically proven that there is disproportionate poverty among ethnic minorities in the UK.

It's really not hard.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

'Doreen Lawrence says she has “no doubt” that racism was involved in the Grenfell Tower tragedy'

Involved in - not due to. A significant difference.

Which is still wrong.

Not that I'm supporting the gammon that started the thread. His agenda is well-established.

 

[beorhthelm]

Then you need to read the post properly. It's perfectly obvious.

I'm basically saying exactly the same as [MENTION=10202]Not Andy Naylor[/MENTION] . There was no racism from the Fire Service, however, a building full of poor people was neglected to the point where it was a fire hazard and the Fire Brigade advice regarding such buildings was wrong by their own admission. I don't believe rich people are likely to live in such buildings. And it's statistically proven that there is disproportionate poverty among ethnic minorities in the UK.

It's really not hard.

how can we keep saying it was neglected when it had millions spent on it, which was the likely cause of tradegy? back to earlier point, this line of argument is saying council properties are not suitable. or perhaps the authorities responsible are not properly inspecting them, so perhaps Lawerance is right after all.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Yes ,not one of the PC gang on here wants their boat rocked .
regards
DF

Shouldn’t you be at a match somewhere....oh hang on you don’t do that ..perhaps on a march instead

 

[Algernon]

Fundamentally I 'suspect' that minority communities have been negatively impacted disproportionately by austerity measures in recent years. Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I read only that the communities that are less well off have been those negatively impacted, white or black, majority or minority.
Are you saying that purely because there may be/is a larger proportion of black/minority communities that are in the less well off category that austerity is disproportionately impacting them? Or is there something else? Not disagreeing, still trying to broaden my knowledge in relation to this.

 

[Guinness Boy]

how can we keep saying it was neglected when it had millions spent on it, which was the likely cause of tradegy? back to earlier point, this line of argument is saying council properties are not suitable. or perhaps the authorities responsible are not properly inspecting them, so perhaps Lawerance is right after all.

I haven't once said "council properties", you have. The millions - not a lot when you consider the buildng's size and number of flats - were spent on windows and individual water heating (imagine having actual new-fangled water heating in your flat and windows that keep out damp and everything) and the cladding that killed 72 people.

 

[Triggaaar]

Then you need to read the post properly. It's perfectly obvious.

I've read it a few times and I don't think it's obvious at all.

There was no racism from the Fire Service, however, a building full of poor people was neglected to the point where it was a fire hazard and the Fire Brigade advice regarding such buildings was wrong by their own admission.

There are a couple of points there. The first being that the building had been neglected (and the link to that being because it was full of poor people from ethnic minorities). I can understand that accusation, and am not suggesting it's untrue. The second point is about the advice from the fire brigade. Reading this thread suggests that the advice would have been correct had the windows been properly sealed, and the cladding not been so flammable. Obviously the fire brigade didn't know of those issues when giving the advice.

You're comment "What she's saying there is that she believes the response would have been different if all those trapped were white."

As I read it, 'response' refers to what the fire brigade did in the heat of the moment when the emergency was called in? Are you saying that's not what is meant by response?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've read it a few times and I don't think it's obvious at all.

It’s very obvious. I don’t think [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] can make it any more clear without sounding patronising.

 

[Triggaaar]

It’s very obvious. I don’t think [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] can make it any more clear without sounding patronising.

Well it does actually sound obvious to me, but obviously meaning something other than he says it means. So you agree that 'response' refers to what the fire brigade did when the emergency was called in, right?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I've read it a few times and I don't think it's obvious at all.

There are a couple of points there. The first being that the building had been neglected (and the link to that being because it was full of poor people from ethnic minorities). I can understand that accusation, and am not suggesting it's untrue. The second point is about the advice from the fire brigade. Reading this thread suggests that the advice would have been correct had the windows been properly sealed, and the cladding not been so flammable. Obviously the fire brigade didn't know of those issues when giving the advice.

You're comment "What she's saying there is that she believes the response would have been different if all those trapped were white."

As I read it, 'response' refers to what the fire brigade did in the heat of the moment when the emergency was called in? Are you saying that's not what is meant by response?

I'm not explaining it again, nor getting in to one of your "disect every word and comma to prove a point that isn't there" arguments.

 

[Palacefinder General]

I'm not explaining it again, nor getting in to one of your "disect every word and comma to prove a point that isn't there" arguments.

How the F can give a shit about this stuff right now?

 

[Guinness Boy]

How the F can give a shit about this stuff right now?

Half time while the game's online in another tab?

 

[blue'n'white]

... and Harrods blankets would gave been provided to all those rescued, Starbucks would have provided the premium offee, and Fortnum & Mason would've sent Hampers.

Honestly....

"999 Emergency Services"

"Fire Brigade Please"

"No problem. Does this involve black people or white people?"

"Black"

"Oh, okay.. we'll dust off the horse drawn wooden pumps and be with you in a few hours."

"Premium " coffee at Starbucks Don't think so. Dishwater

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Doreen Lawrence’s comments are a very specific attack on the London’s fire service. Read her comments. She couldn’t me more clear.

Nothing more.

Why would anyone on NSC try to deflect that and politicise it. Classic party political shit stirring.

Over 30 years ago one of my neighbours lost a son who was hit by a driver while cycling back from Canterbury. The driver was a mason and got off with a fine. He had killed someone previously by running them over. My neighbour became obsessed. Years later, we invited her round for dinner and she could not go longer than a minute without bringing up her son, and conspiracy. Later she moved to France, selling her house because she imagined her next door neighbour had installed a listening device.

Now think about Doreen Lawrence. She probably thinks all officials are racist. It is understandable.

Starting this thread is a disgrace, and contemptable, and exactly what I expect from the OP who, despite previous posts where he has confessed to some struggles with issues himself, is repeatedly prone to being a nasty piece of work.

 

[Spanish Seagulls]

No matter who or of what background were in those flats the advice to 'stay put' would have been the same and that's where it went wrong.
They should have got everyone out but they didn't because that was the perceived wisdom in this type of incident.
As for racism, I personally know one of the first fire fighters on the scene and I know there isn't a racist bone in his body.

 

[portlock seagull]

No matter who or of what background were in those flats the advice to 'stay put' would have been the same and that's where it went wrong.
They should have got everyone out but they didn't because that was the perceived wisdom in this type of incident.
As for racism, I personally know one of the first fire fighters on the scene and I know there isn't a racist bone in his body.

We all know that. Shame Dawn doesn’t. And your mates a hero too.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not explaining it again, nor getting in to one of your "disect every word and comma to prove a point that isn't there" arguments.

Ok. I don't agree with what you've written, but don't worry about that, you just insult me and move on. Standard.