[News] Grenfell Tower tragedy was due to racism in London Fire Brigade says Doreen Lawrence

[Uh_huh_him]

Where there could be a strong racist element is in the attitude of the local authorities to the fears that residents had expressed (which was largely to dismiss them), and the response since the fire. But this is also bound up with a dismissal of the concerns of poor people, who also often happen to be of a different racial mix to wealthier people. I'm reminded of the aftermath of the hurricane in New Orleans, when George W Bush was condemned for not caring about black people. The truth was that he didn't care about poor people. It looks the same and has the same results but is actually different..

This!

 

[BN9 BHA]

 

[Triggaaar]

Indeed. She's quite clearly playing the 'black' card. My question to her is how the fire officers would know the colour of the skin of the residents as they turned up to deal with the awful situation ?

When an emergency is called in, the address is put into the the fire engines. It's common knowledge that when the address contains white people, the fire engines are able to go faster, the sirens are louder, and the firefighters themselves receive an adrenaline boost through their suits.

 

[Triggaaar]

What she's saying there is that she believes the response would have been different if all those trapped were white.

I don't agree with her but only yesterday the London Fire Chief herself has stated that the stay put advice was totally wrong for a building like Grenfell.

And who lives in buildings like Grenfell? Poor people and immigrants who are statistically more likely to be non-white.

If the advice was wrong, why does that mean it was wrong because of the colour of the people inside the building?

We know that the advice from the police that contributed to the Hillsborough disaster was wrong. Is that because the majority of the fans were white?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Having worked 800 yards from Grenfell over a time period of some 2 and a half years, including the aftermath, I know the area quite intimately and to be impoverished. But just the mention of racism I just find incredibly staggering.

 

[Weststander]

Doreen Lawrence’s comments are a very specific attack on the London’s fire service. Read her comments. She couldn’t me more clear.

Nothing more.

Why would anyone on NSC try to deflect that and politicise it. Classic party political shit stirring.

 

[Algernon]

I suspect race/racism is a factor in the tragic events at Grenfell.

I'm genuinely interested in your suspicions. Won't argue with you, just genuinely interested. I might learn something.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If the advice was wrong, why does that mean it was wrong because of the colour of the people inside the building?

?

I don’t know. I didn’t say that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Triggaaar]

I don’t know. I didn’t say that.

So why say "but only yesterday the London Fire Chief herself has stated that the stay put advice was totally wrong for a building like Grenfell.
...
And who lives in buildings like Grenfell? Poor people and immigrants who are statistically more likely to be non-white."

It reads as though you're saying that the advice was wrong for a building like Grenfell, and people more likely to be in the building, so QED. If that wasn't what you were saying, I can't see what you were saying.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Before the Grenfell tragedy, nobody knew the effect that cladding the outside of a tower block would have on a fire. The 'Stay Put' advice is the best advice in any flat, because they are supposed to be built with fire doors, which would stop the flames and smoke from spreading.

The cladding effect was unknown to both the residents and the fire services, so how on earth anyone can blame the firefighters is beyond me.


Fire stations had been closed down whilst Johnson was mayor of London, so therefore that would have had an effect on arrival times to any major fire.

So absolutely nothing to say on the accusation of racism which the thread is about? But very quick to use the death of innocent people to have a sly swipe at Boris. I sense a very purposeful but subtle agenda going on.

 

[Saunders]

Which is not the same at all saying the tragedy (by implication, all of it) was due to racism in the London Fire Brigade. What she's saying there is that she believes the response would have been different if all those trapped were white.

I don't agree with her but only yesterday the London Fire Chief herself has stated that the stay put advice was totally wrong for a building like Grenfell.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...admits-stay-put-advice-not-suitable-grenfell/

And who lives in buildings like Grenfell? Poor people and immigrants who are statistically more likely to be non-white.

The stay put advice was correct if cost cutting evil people werent involved in the cladding. If the fire brigade had been informed that the building had been turned into a roman candle by the authorities they wouldnt have issued that. She is pointing the blame at the wrong people and she is also assuming all firefighters are white.

 

[cloud]

Before the Grenfell tragedy, nobody knew the effect that cladding the outside of a tower block would have on a fire. The 'Stay Put' advice is the best advice in any flat, because they are supposed to be built with fire doors, which would stop the flames and smoke from spreading.

The cladding effect was unknown to both the residents and the fire services, so how on earth anyone can blame the firefighters is beyond me.


Fire stations had been closed down whilst Johnson was mayor of London, so therefore that would have had an effect on arrival times to any major fire.

The tenants in the block had been campaigning for a long time as they knew something like this could happen. But the block owners / council allowed the building to be poorly maintained. So if anyone is to blame, it's the council rather than the Fire Brigade.
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/new...-checks-refused-five-weeks-before-blaze-52123

 

[Acker79]

So absolutely nothing to say on the accusation of racism which the thread is about? But very quick to use the death of innocent people to have a sly swipe at Boris. I sense a very purposeful but subtle agenda going on.

Seems a little harsh. The thread is started because someone has suggested a cause/contributing factor in the disaster, surely suggesting another factor (the closures of fire stations) isn't exactly off-topic, if it's on topic and is using the death of innocent people, can't the same be levelled at everyone in this thread?

 

[Saunders]

Started by a fridge spontaneously combusting, they said, but didn’t name the make of the fridge.

And did they say who was the owner of the flat where the fire started? Did he survive or die in the fire?

There was a story that he packed his bags while the fire raged in his kitchen and left without raising the alarm. Is this true or an urban myth?

I’ve always thought there was something not quite right about this case, as though something is being covered up.

That is utter bullshit and proven wrong I dont know how you can still repeat this baseless character attack on the person who first raised the alarm.

The fire was put out initially by the fire brigade but they didnt know about the cladding and that it had spread to the outside of the building.

 

[beorhthelm]

The tenants in the block had been campaigning for a long time as they knew something like this could happen. But the block owners / council allowed the building to be poorly maintained. So if anyone is to blame, it's the council rather than the Fire Brigade.
https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/new...-checks-refused-five-weeks-before-blaze-52123

a council that just spent millions on the cladding, other renovations, and according to that story gas pipe upgrades.

 

[Bry Nylon]

The 'stay put' advice was given in good faith and fully in-line with established fire service protocols for fires in high-rise blocks developed and refined over many years of experience. Tower blocks are designed so that domestic fires are contained within the effected property and standard practice is to isolate the lifts, set up an operations 'bridgehead' on the stairwell 2 floors below the fire and send firefighters tasked with tackling the incident foward from that point. The very last thing you need is frightened, confused residents (including the very young, the elderly and the infirm) attempting to evacuate down the stairs as firefighters are attempting to go up. It would be utter chaos, dangerous and unnecessary.

Of course, the 'stay put' advice for Grenfell proved flawed as the building had been clad in flammable panels that effectively turned the whole building into an inferno very quickly.The way that building behaved once the kitchen on floor 4 was on fire was completely unprecedented. Had it been known that the building was covered in flammable material then I'm sure residents would have been told to evacuate as quickly as possible and fire and rescue operations would have been adapted to reflect that priority.

I'm not sure what the point of Doreen Lawrence's comments are but if they are aimed at the crews who responded that night then she is picking on soft targets and in my view the wrong ones. Those crews did all they could that night and would have known from the radio messages they would have heard on the appliances en route - and the scene that confronted them on arrival - that they were facing an almost impossible task. I'm sure many of them committed into the building that night are still dealing with what they saw and heard and the decisions they would have had to make.

Doreen Lawrence saying, "had that been a block full of white people in there, they would have done everything to get them out as fast as possible," shows a complete lack of understanding of the incident, the issues and the moral courage of those who went in.

 

[Weststander]

The 'stay put' advice was given in good faith and fully in-line with established fire service protocols for fires in high-rise blocks developed and refined over many years of experience. Tower blocks are designed so that domestic fires are contained within the effected property and standard practice is to isolate the lifts, set up an operations 'bridgehead' on the stairwell 2 floors below the fire and send firefighters tasked with tackling the incident foward from that point. The very last thing you need is frightened, confused residents (including the very young, the elderly and the infirm) attempting to evacuate down the stairs as firefighters are attempting to go up. It would be utter chaos, dangerous and unnecessary.

Of course, the 'stay put' advice for Grenfell proved flawed as the building had been clad in flammable panels that effectively turned the whole building into an inferno very quickly.The way that building behaved once the kitchen on floor 4 was on fire was completely unprecedented. Had it been known that the building was covered in flammable material then I'm sure residents would have been told to evacuate as quickly as possible and fire and rescue operations would have been adapted to reflect that priority.

I'm not sure what the point of Doreen Lawrence's comments are but if they are aimed at the crews who responded that night then she is picking on soft targets and in my view the wrong ones. Those crews did all they could that night and would have known from the radio messages they would have heard on the appliances en route - and the scene that confronted them on arrival - that they were facing an almost impossible task. I'm sure many of them committed into the building that night are still dealing with what they saw and heard and the decisions they would have had to make.

Doreen Lawrence saying, "had that been a block full of white people in there, they would have done everything to get them out as fast as possible," shows a complete lack of understanding of the incident, the issues and the moral courage of those who went in.

Thank you. I was hoping that you’d post.

 

[clapham_gull]

The fire started from a fridge motor, If the electrical installation was up to date it would never of happened, the RCD would of tripped way before any fire. Basically it would of detected a fridge motor fault probably days or hours before. Never been mentioned reckon it’s been covered up.

It has been mentioned, it was in the first inquiry.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3447420/...hat-sparked-devastating-grenfell-tower-blaze/

No cover up.

The other problem with fridges in this country is we still allow the back to be covered with flammable material to be sold if not newly manufactured. Basically although they were technically "banned" in July this year, you can still buy them on the high street or the internet,

It's such a concern of the fire brigade that Which Magazine (no less) simply refuses to review any that have a plastic back. They are instantly graded "Don't Buy".

 

[LamieRobertson]

After her son was murdered by racists ?

Oh, it's you. No shock then.

You would naturally crawl out on a thread like this.

Spot on

 

[clapham_gull]

Started by a fridge spontaneously combusting, they said, but didn’t name the make of the fridge.

And did they say who was the owner of the flat where the fire started? Did he survive or die in the fire?

There was a story that he packed his bags while the fire raged in his kitchen and left without raising the alarm. Is this true or an urban myth?

I’ve always thought there was something not quite right about this case, as though something is being covered up.

With all due respect complete bollocks.

As for the model it was a Hotpoint Model FF175BP. There you go.