[News] Grenfell Tower bonfire

[Simster]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46106224

There is no doubt that this goes beyond poor taste - it's really very unpleasant that anybody could think this was a good idea. But there are two things that bother me and I feel are in danger of being overlooked:

1) Five people have been arrested over this. Really? I mean it's vile, it really is, but do we really want to go down the path of arresting people for this sort of thing? I'd be interested to know NSC's opinion on this.

2) The article points out that Theresa May has called the video "utterly unacceptable". To me this is typical of her really - did she need to lower herself to comment on this at all, given that she wasn't all that quick to condemn (if she has done so at all) the Conservative council that saw fit to penny pinch with flammable cladding just so that this dreadful eyesore of a building didn't offend the eyes of her core voters in posh Kensington. In my view, it's much easier to get the pitch forks at people posting videos in poor taste than it ever was to actually confront the people whose responsibility it was to look after that building in the first place. Very weak.

 

[DavidRyder]

I'm not sure they'll actually get charged with anything, but just being outed and having to look friends and family in the eye will give them some punishment hopefully.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Point 1

If the bonfire had been confined their own back garden, then I doubt they would have been arrested (they turned themselves in). They chose to put the video on social media so it then comes under the Public Order Act (5) Section 5 makes it an offence to use “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour” or to display “any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting” within the hearing or sight of a person “likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress.
There is also a racial aggravating factor in the video.

Point 2
I agree completely.

 

[Simster]

I'm not sure they'll actually get charged with anything, but just being outed and having to look friends and family in the eye will give them some punishment hopefully.

I tend to think people as stupid as this still probably don't see why it is deemed offensive. But there are thick, boorish people everywhere - I don't want them arrested for it.

 

[Gwylan]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the crime is. You can't be convicted of being a dickhead unfortunately

 

[Justice]

Morgan is sticking his oar in name and shame and then goes on to mention Grenfell families still haven’t been re housed. To me that is more disgusting than some dickheads thinking they are funny.

 

[Seasidesage]

I saw this on the news last night. There really are some hateful people around. What the **** is going on in your mind that you think that is a good idea and to film it and put it on social media? I hope they do get nicked personally. However, I'm not sure what Theresa May could do here though, if she was asked to comment then she is really obliged to?

 

[sjamesb3466]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46106224

There is no doubt that this goes beyond poor taste - it's really very unpleasant that anybody could think this was a good idea. But there are two things that bother me and I feel are in danger of being overlooked:

1) Five people have been arrested over this. Really? I mean it's vile, it really is, but do we really want to go down the path of arresting people for this sort of thing? I'd be interested to know NSC's opinion on this.

2) The article points out that Theresa May has called the video "utterly unacceptable". To me this is typical of her really - did she need to lower herself to comment on this at all, given that she wasn't all that quick to condemn (if she has done so at all) the Conservative council that saw fit to penny pinch with flammable cladding just so that this dreadful eyesore of a building didn't offend the eyes of her core voters in posh Kensington. In my view, it's much easier to get the pitch forks at people posting videos in poor taste than it ever was to actually confront the people whose responsibility it was to look after that building in the first place. Very weak.

Just had this very discussion with the admin in our office. She thinks they should be charged (she couldn't say with what) and my thoughts are that these people are sick, pathetic and cowardly however IMO a crime hasn't been committed (the law may say otherwise). None of these thoughts condone the actions of these people, simply that if we start giving out criminal records for being a **** then many on here (including myself at times) are in for a long stretch.

 

[BLOCK F]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46106224

There is no doubt that this goes beyond poor taste - it's really very unpleasant that anybody could think this was a good idea. But there are two things that bother me and I feel are in danger of being overlooked:

1) Five people have been arrested over this. Really? I mean it's vile, it really is, but do we really want to go down the path of arresting people for this sort of thing? I'd be interested to know NSC's opinion on this.

2) The article points out that Theresa May has called the video "utterly unacceptable". To me this is typical of her really - did she need to lower herself to comment on this at all, given that she wasn't all that quick to condemn (if she has done so at all) the Conservative council that saw fit to penny pinch with flammable cladding just so that this dreadful eyesore of a building didn't offend the eyes of her core voters in posh Kensington. In my view, it's much easier to get the pitch forks at people posting videos in poor taste than it ever was to actually confront the people whose responsibility it was to look after that building in the first place. Very weak.

Of course Theresa May had to comment. I presume she was asked a question and replied, much like Amber Rudd did on telly this morning!
Jesus, what kind of reaction would there have been in the mob media if she'd made no comment?
I understand that the cladding used on Grenfell has also been found on approximately another 300 buildings throughout the country. It would seem that the Building Regs. need overhauling.
No doubt the Grenfell Inquiry will answer many questions regarding responsibility and if criminal behaviour is found to have occurred, then I hope the law will take its course.
I find it quite ridiculous to have a pop at the PM in such a manner.

 

[RandyWanger]

It's all over twitter, lots of outrage. It's poor taste indeed. Could probably go down as a hate crime, lots of people using the racist narrative.

 

[Simster]

Of course Theresa May had to comment. I presume she was asked a question and replied, much like Amber Rudd did on telly this morning!
Jesus, what kind of reaction would there have been in the mob media if she'd made no comment?
I understand that the cladding used on Grenfell has also been found on approximately another 300 buildings throughout the country. It would seem that the Building Regs. need overhauling.
No doubt the Grenfell Inquiry will answer many questions regarding responsibility and if criminal behaviour is found to have occurred, then I hope the law will take its course.
I find it quite ridiculous to have a pop at the PM in such a manner.

She could have commented in many ways, but the sensible thing to have done was surely to have said "it would be inappropriate to comment whilst this is being investigated" or something. As I say, it's not so much that she commented, just that she obviously did so readily when she was far more guarded about the actions of the local council, who quite possibly have blood on their hands rather than simply being boorish morons.

You'd have had plenty to say if it had been a Labour PM and Labour council whose watch this had been on.

 

[NogansRun]

Bad taste? - clearly yes

Is being a thick, ignorant moron a crime? - no, if it was then a very large proportion of the population would have a criminal record

It's a sign of the times that this even makes the news - it is trial by social media, utterly pathetic really.

As for Morgan - this guy allegedly presided over phone hacking of murder victims amongst others, and has the brass neck to call these latest fvckwits the lowest of the low!

 

[dazzer6666]

Disgusting thing to do, but not sure what, if any, offence has been committed ?

 

[lost in london]

Can't help but think about Jon Ronson's book So You've Been Publicly Shamed: The shamed are people like us - people who, say, made a joke on social media that came out badly, or made a mistake at work. Once their transgression is revealed, collective outrage circles with the force of a hurricane and the next thing they know they're being torn apart by an angry mob, jeered at, demonized, sometimes even fired from their job.

A great renaissance of public shaming is sweeping our land. Justice has been democratized. The silent majority are getting a voice. But what are we doing with our voice? We are mercilessly finding people's faults. We are defining the boundaries of normality by ruining the lives of those outside it. We are using shame as a form of social control.. public shaming is the new thing.

These people are idiots and the 'joke' was in the worst taste, but the likely result of having their lives ruined by this stupid action to satisfy the mob isn't right.

 

[Simster]

Can't help but think about Jon Ronson's book So You've Been Publicly Shamed: The shamed are people like us - people who, say, made a joke on social media that came out badly, or made a mistake at work. Once their transgression is revealed, collective outrage circles with the force of a hurricane and the next thing they know they're being torn apart by an angry mob, jeered at, demonized, sometimes even fired from their job.

A great renaissance of public shaming is sweeping our land. Justice has been democratized. The silent majority are getting a voice. But what are we doing with our voice? We are mercilessly finding people's faults. We are defining the boundaries of normality by ruining the lives of those outside it. We are using shame as a form of social control.. public shaming is the new thing.

These people are idiots and the 'joke' was in the worst taste, but the likely result of having their lives ruined by this stupid action to satisfy the mob isn't right.

Absolutely right, which incidentally [MENTION=13368]BLOCK F[/MENTION] is the very reason the PM shouldn't be commenting on this sort of thing.

 

[goldstone]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46106224

There is no doubt that this goes beyond poor taste - it's really very unpleasant that anybody could think this was a good idea. But there are two things that bother me and I feel are in danger of being overlooked:

1) Five people have been arrested over this. Really? I mean it's vile, it really is, but do we really want to go down the path of arresting people for this sort of thing? I'd be interested to know NSC's opinion on this.

2) The article points out that Theresa May has called the video "utterly unacceptable". To me this is typical of her really - did she need to lower herself to comment on this at all, given that she wasn't all that quick to condemn (if she has done so at all) the Conservative council that saw fit to penny pinch with flammable cladding just so that this dreadful eyesore of a building didn't offend the eyes of her core voters in posh Kensington. In my view, it's much easier to get the pitch forks at people posting videos in poor taste than it ever was to actually confront the people whose responsibility it was to look after that building in the first place. Very weak.

Agree entirely. A perfect example of police time being wasted to satisfy the snowflake generation. "Hello is that the police? Someone is trying to break into my house." "Sorry, we're far too busy arresting people who posted a video that some other people may not like. We've got to get our priorities right."

 

[WATFORD zero]

Disgusting thing to do, but not sure what, if any, offence has been committed ?

I believe the offence wasn't what they did. You can be as much of a **** as you like in your own home.

It was the fact they video'd it and then published that video in the public domain. Publishing grossly offensive material has always been, IMHO quite rightly, an offence.

(But May shouldn't comment and Morgan can f*** right off with what he's done)

 

[A1X]

People were arrested for burning poppies, and even taken to court, found guilty and sentenced. I don't regard this as being any different in terms of being a public order offence.

 

[nicko31]

Morgan is sticking his oar in name and shame and then goes on to mention Grenfell families still haven’t been re housed. To me that is more disgusting than some dickheads thinking they are funny.

He will just do anything to get attention, the guy doesn't stand for anything. Will never forget his fake photos in the Mirror during the Iraq war, showed his true colours then

 

[Hillian1]

People were arrested for burning poppies, and even taken to court, found guilty and sentenced. I don't regard this as being any different in terms of being a public order offence.

They burnt the Poppies in public.

The only person who should be arrested here is the moron who put it in the public domain.