[Football] Greg Clarke FA education 101.

[sydney]

I have no idea what you are talking about.
You clearly have no idea what I was talking about, to a specific poster, regarding repeated comments.

ooke diddly dokeee....my bad

 

[Eeyore]

I would argue that the term " coloured " has never been acceptable to non whites.

I am not even sure that the term " people of colour " is acceptable either, although non white people do recognise that there has to be a terminology used when making reference to more than one group of non white people and that's a generally accepted compromise.

Many people are defending the terminology used and hiding behind the " Generational " Defense.

If that's the case. Let's get shot of that " Generation " and remove the from positions of power.

Our reluctance to replace older white men from these positions is holding us all back.

Our reluctance to replace them with more " proximate " individuals " who are younger and from BAME backgrounds will always hold us back.

And finally on the subject of " Colour " itself.

We need to change our language to bring ourselves and our country kicking and screaming into " Modernity ". Just look up the terminology " Flesh Coloured " in any dictionary of the English Language.

See what it says or what it conjures up in your own mind and ask yourself. " Is that truly accurate ?

I don't think so, anyone can educate themselves or simply keep with the times

Others are simply ignorant either by accident or by design

I think it comes from the same place as a large proportion of people who lack general human empathy, the people who happily see school children starve and people drown in the Channel

Not having this. I refer people to John Barnes' take on the issues. The real problem being diluted by a witch hunt from the Ministry of Correct Terminology.

In fact I rather resent my accidental ignorance (see my entry about using 'half caste') being compared to lacking empathy and being happy to see school kids starve and folk drown in the Channel. I'll respect the person's right to say that, although for me that is a worse form of ignorance.

I oppose all forms of prejudice. But that has been a long journey given that they were imputed in me from a young age. As a kid I was scared to go to London as I was told how it was full of dangerous people from elsewhere. A relative told me, at a young age, about the 'if you see the white of a black man's eye' phrase. I heard, and told, jokes about people with disabilities. There was even an incident, at about the age of nine, where a group of kids my class ran to the school gates to mock an older lad with Downs Syndrome who used to walk past the school and wave. I don't remember if I actually took part (or perhaps my brain refuses to let me know because of the shame of it). Anyone who was gay was fair game in those days too. Let's not even start on the jokes about Pakistanis spitting.. Yes, you've probably heard (and possibly told) that one from decades back.

I look back and realise all this was of its time. It frustrates me that I had no function to rationalise and thus oppose it then. How could I ? I was a child. But as an adult we throw off the things the childhood. But indoctrinations take years to overcome. And whilst things get intellectualised I think everyone still has some racist attitudes that will always remain. Certainly folk who grew up before the turn of the century.

My problem, and this is the reason why I like John Barnes' take on it, is the lack of honesty and the scramble for the highest moral perch. It doesn't serve the issue of prejudice. The Daily Mail uses the right words. Have they become our leader on issues of equality and prejudice ?

So if someone uses the wrong words or isn't up with present understandings I think the 'generational defence' is perfectly acceptable as long as the context and intent is benign, and a willingness to learn is present.

I suggest that those who sit in their judgement, which is more a lever to deify their own moral values much of the time, take a good look at themselves and ask if they are truly free of prejudice rather than stoning an old bloke because he screwed his words up.

I've got some news- using the the right words doesn't make you an Equality Angel. Your thoughts and actions do.

 

[sydney]

Not having this. I refer people to John Barnes' take on the issues. The real problem being diluted by a witch hunt from the Ministry of Correct Terminology.

In fact I rather resent my accidental ignorance (see my entry about using 'half caste') being compared to lacking empathy and being happy to see school kids starve and folk drown in the Channel. I'll respect the person's right to say that, although for me that is a worse form of ignorance.

I oppose all forms of prejudice. But that has been a long journey given that they were imputed in me from a young age. As a kid I was scared to go to London as I was told how it was full of dangerous people from elsewhere. A relative told me, at a young age, about the 'if you see the white of a black man's eye' phrase. I heard, and told, jokes about people with disabilities. There was even an incident, at about the age of nine, where a group of kids my class ran to the school gates to mock an older lad with Downs Syndrome who used to walk past the school and wave. I don't remember if I actually took part (or perhaps my brain refuses to let me know because of the shame of it). Anyone who was gay was fair game in those days too. Let's not even start on the jokes about Pakistanis spitting.. Yes, you've probably heard (and possibly told) that one from decades back.

I look back and realise all this was of its time. It frustrates me that I had no function to rationalise and thus oppose it then. How could I ? I was a child. But as an adult we throw off the things the childhood. But indoctrinations take years to overcome. And whilst things get intellectualised I think everyone still has some racist attitudes that will always remain. Certainly folk who grew up before the turn of the century.

My problem, and this is the reason why I like John Barnes' take on it, is the lack of honesty and the scramble for the highest moral perch. It doesn't serve the issue of prejudice. The Daily Mail uses the right words. Have they become our leader on issues of equality and prejudice ?

So if someone uses the wrong words or isn't up with present understandings I think the 'generational defence' is perfectly acceptable as long as the context and intent is benign, and a willingness to learn is present.

I suggest that those who sit in their judgement, which is more a lever to deify their own moral values much of the time, take a good look at themselves and ask if they are truly free of prejudice rather than stoning an old bloke because he screwed his words up.

I've got some news- using the the right words doesn't make you an Equality Angel. Your thoughts and actions do.

it's so fashionable to hound old , white men for slips of the tongue , we could show Spanish churches being attacked by African refugees but a silly old git in a prestigious position in mainland Britain is far more combustible and fashionable .....what a very , very strange world we live in ...

 

[GOM]

Not having this. I refer people to John Barnes' take on the issues. The real problem being diluted by a witch hunt from the Ministry of Correct Terminology.

In fact I rather resent my accidental ignorance (see my entry about using 'half caste') being compared to lacking empathy and being happy to see school kids starve and folk drown in the Channel. I'll respect the person's right to say that, although for me that is a worse form of ignorance.

I oppose all forms of prejudice. But that has been a long journey given that they were imputed in me from a young age. As a kid I was scared to go to London as I was told how it was full of dangerous people from elsewhere. A relative told me, at a young age, about the 'if you see the white of a black man's eye' phrase. I heard, and told, jokes about people with disabilities. There was even an incident, at about the age of nine, where a group of kids my class ran to the school gates to mock an older lad with Downs Syndrome who used to walk past the school and wave. I don't remember if I actually took part (or perhaps my brain refuses to let me know because of the shame of it). Anyone who was gay was fair game in those days too. Let's not even start on the jokes about Pakistanis spitting.. Yes, you've probably heard (and possibly told) that one from decades back.

I look back and realise all this was of its time. It frustrates me that I had no function to rationalise and thus oppose it then. How could I ? I was a child. But as an adult we throw off the things the childhood. But indoctrinations take years to overcome. And whilst things get intellectualised I think everyone still has some racist attitudes that will always remain. Certainly folk who grew up before the turn of the century.

My problem, and this is the reason why I like John Barnes' take on it, is the lack of honesty and the scramble for the highest moral perch. It doesn't serve the issue of prejudice. The Daily Mail uses the right words. Have they become our leader on issues of equality and prejudice ?

So if someone uses the wrong words or isn't up with present understandings I think the 'generational defence' is perfectly acceptable as long as the context and intent is benign, and a willingness to learn is present.

I suggest that those who sit in their judgement, which is more a lever to deify their own moral values much of the time, take a good look at themselves and ask if they are truly free of prejudice rather than stoning an old bloke because he screwed his words up.

I've got some news- using the the right words doesn't make you an Equality Angel. Your thoughts and actions do.

Well said, and for those using the right words now, no doubt in the future they may well be deemed the wrong words, but you just got older and didn't keep up.

 

[NooBHA]

Not having this. I refer people to John Barnes' take on the issues. The real problem being diluted by a witch hunt from the Ministry of Correct Terminology.

In fact I rather resent my accidental ignorance (see my entry about using 'half caste') being compared to lacking empathy and being happy to see school kids starve and folk drown in the Channel. I'll respect the person's right to say that, although for me that is a worse form of ignorance.

I oppose all forms of prejudice. But that has been a long journey given that they were imputed in me from a young age. As a kid I was scared to go to London as I was told how it was full of dangerous people from elsewhere. A relative told me, at a young age, about the 'if you see the white of a black man's eye' phrase. I heard, and told, jokes about people with disabilities. There was even an incident, at about the age of nine, where a group of kids my class ran to the school gates to mock an older lad with Downs Syndrome who used to walk past the school and wave. I don't remember if I actually took part (or perhaps my brain refuses to let me know because of the shame of it). Anyone who was gay was fair game in those days too. Let's not even start on the jokes about Pakistanis spitting.. Yes, you've probably heard (and possibly told) that one from decades back.

I look back and realise all this was of its time. It frustrates me that I had no function to rationalise and thus oppose it then. How could I ? I was a child. But as an adult we throw off the things the childhood. But indoctrinations take years to overcome. And whilst things get intellectualised I think everyone still has some racist attitudes that will always remain. Certainly folk who grew up before the turn of the century.

My problem, and this is the reason why I like John Barnes' take on it, is the lack of honesty and the scramble for the highest moral perch. It doesn't serve the issue of prejudice. The Daily Mail uses the right words. Have they become our leader on issues of equality and prejudice ?

So if someone uses the wrong words or isn't up with present understandings I think the 'generational defence' is perfectly acceptable as long as the context and intent is benign, and a willingness to learn is present.

I suggest that those who sit in their judgement, which is more a lever to deify their own moral values much of the time, take a good look at themselves and ask if they are truly free of prejudice rather than stoning an old bloke because he screwed his words up.

I've got some news- using the the right words doesn't make you an Equality Angel. Your thoughts and actions do.

I think we have to just disagree on that point - Although I will concede on the part about ''a willingness to learn''

Because if we accept the ''Generational Defense'' That would mean that we were conceding that we would need to wait for that Generation to die off before we could expect such terminologies to die with them.

 

[Randy McNob]

it's so fashionable to hound old , white men for slips of the tongue , we could show Spanish churches being attacked by African refugees but a silly old git in a prestigious position in mainland Britain is far more combustible and fashionable .....what a very , very strange world we live in ...

I don't think the behaviour of some loons in a faraway land is the yardstick here, we're talking about someone high up in the echelons of football, if it was some old fuddy duddy down the road fair enough but racism in football particularly is quite a hot subject and is a beacon for racial tolerance in society, even moreso with players taking the knee before every game and black lives matter on banners around every ground.

I really do feel we opened the box slightly in 2016 and we see this sort of thing creep back slowly, it needs stamping out and these people made an example of. Get some real football people involved and get rid of these crusty dinosaurs with their prehistoric world views

 

[ewe2]

Barber must be a possibility,to take on the role.

 

[GT49er]

I think we have to just disagree on that point - Although I will concede on the part about ''a willingness to learn''

Because if we accept the ''Generational Defense'' That would mean that we were conceding that we would need to wait for that Generation to die off before we could expect such terminologies to die with them.

Bollocks - because that means you would be waiting forever. People (don't know who 'they' are, but these things get constantly changed - trace the use of the word 'coloured' over the last 60 years) will forever change what is correct, and older people will always get older, will suffer from dementia and other maladies, including old age, and will forget, or fail to take on board, what the latest 'correct' terminology is.
We talk about BAME today, and that is apparently alright; in 20 or 30 years - or less - the term will have become discredited, but there will still be some of today's aware generation who will forget to stop using it. There'll be a new correct terminology - which like all before it will last for a few years before being replaced. Users of the new terminology will of course feel morally excited about shouting 'racist' at any poor old sod who accidentally blurts out 'BAME'.
Clarke got it wrong - given his position he should have known better - but the path to racial equality isn't furthered by points scoring off people who, without any malicious intent whatsoever, inadvertently use an out of date word or phrase (that defence does not include defence of using the N word, before anyone gets outraged - everyone knows that is unacceptable).

 

[Beach Hut]

(that defence does not include defence of using the N word, before anyone gets outraged - everyone knows that is unacceptable).

Except Ron Atkinson

 

[El Presidente]

Barber must be a possibility,to take on the role.

Greg Clarke was on £190k a year at the FA
PB is paid £1.5m a year at the Albion.

 

[GT49er]

Except Ron Atkinson

I think even he probably knows by now.

 

[dazzer6666]

Greg Clarke was on £190k a year at the FA
PB is paid £1.5m a year at the Albion.

PB is far more a CEO than a Chairman anyway.........

 

[cunning fergus]

I agree stereotyping is wrong, however it is a fact. I work with most probably a more diverse culture than the majority of people on NSC. The greatest section for education is the Indian Asian, their children are more strictly educated than any other race I work with, and that includes all the white employees. Where I live there are far more Asian dentists and doctors than any other race. This isn't racism this is fact. For this statement made by Greg Clarke to offend has been greatly over exaggerated by people who just want to scream racism and pretend to be hurt.

It’s a poser ain’t it.......I will fly a kite on this one.

How many Indian Asian heritage kids are bought up in single parent families compared to their Afro Caribbean peers.

 

[blue-shifted]

Greg Clarke was on £190k a year at the FA
PB is paid £1.5m a year at the Albion.

You get what you pay for I suppose

 

[Eeyore]

I think we have to just disagree on that point - Although I will concede on the part about ''a willingness to learn''

Because if we accept the ''Generational Defense'' That would mean that we were conceding that we would need to wait for that Generation to die off before we could expect such terminologies to die with them.

No, what it means is that we show understanding and and also recognise that we all have failings of our own in this area of life. They may not be apparent, but if everyone saw our first line of thinking in many situations outside of our head then we might get cancelled too.

Ever seen a black man driving a nice car and wondered where he got his money from ? It's likely that kind of deep conditioning in many folk might lead to a prejudicial first thought. They can't stop that from happening because it is so woven into their psychology from a young age. The older they are the harder it is.

But all this has a silver lining. People learn, they grow, they shed the engrained thought processes of the past. They become better people and many, like myself, become active in speaking out against prejudice (so much so that I was once described as wanky leftie by a respected authority figure).

Better the sinner who repents than one who regards themselves as so pure that they can't remove the plank from their own eye.

Part of resents the way society moulded me in my most influential years. But then again, I'm also proud of journey away from it. Better that than having a sense of righteousness that covers a multitude of failings.

 

[darkwolf666]

It’s a poser ain’t it.......I will fly a kite on this one.

How many Indian Asian heritage kids are bought up in single parent families compared to their Afro Caribbean peers.

So if you come from a single parent family you are doomed to fail, and if you’re black you might as well just join the local gang and take to a life of crime...

When did Greg Clarke get an NSC profile?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Bollocks - because that means you would be waiting forever. People (don't know who 'they' are, but these things get constantly changed - trace the use of the word 'coloured' over the last 60 years) will forever change what is correct, and older people will always get older, will suffer from dementia and other maladies, including old age, and will forget, or fail to take on board, what the latest 'correct' terminology is.
We talk about BAME today, and that is apparently alright; in 20 or 30 years - or less - the term will have become discredited, but there will still be some of today's aware generation who will forget to stop using it. There'll be a new correct terminology - which like all before it will last for a few years before being replaced. Users of the new terminology will of course feel morally excited about shouting 'racist' at any poor old sod who accidentally blurts out 'BAME'.
Clarke got it wrong - given his position he should have known better - but the path to racial equality isn't furthered by points scoring off people who, without any malicious intent whatsoever, inadvertently use an out of date word or phrase (that defence does not include defence of using the N word, before anyone gets outraged - everyone knows that is unacceptable).

Mmmmm....nnnno.

It wasn't a slip of the tongue. He was a serial offender.

He looks to me like a dinosaur who has been reasonably successful at conning people into thinking he's a modern ninja lizard, and has now been found out.

So it goes. Sad for him but I wouldn't feel inclined to leap in to defend him.

I agree with you about how hard it can be, if you live in a bubble, to keep up with modern language and attitudes. Seen. Innit, blud. Put you knickers back on, love, and make me a cup of tea. But .... but as I said, this geezer has form. And if he lived in a bubble, it was a bubble of his own making. In his job, he should have got out more.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Greg Clarke was on £190k a year at the FA
PB is paid £1.5m a year at the Albion.

You get what you pay for I suppose

Words per minute?

 

[GT49er]

Clarke got it wrong - given his position he should have known better...

Mmmmm....nnnno.

So he shouldn't have known better?

 

[rocker959]

I am a similar age, but would disagree that it was not acceptable. I think it is only the last 20 or so years deemed a bad term.

I have an honest question, if 'coloured' is unacceptable, why is 'people of colour' okay?

Exactly