[Football] Greg Clarke FA education 101.

[Swansman]

I would argue that the term " coloured " has never been acceptable to non whites.

I am not even sure that the term " people of colour " is acceptable either, although non white people do recognise that there has to be a terminology used when making reference to more than one group of non white people and that's a generally accepted compromise.

Many people are defending the terminology used and hiding behind the " Generational " Defense.

If that's the case. Let's get shot of that " Generation " and remove the from positions of power.

Our reluctance to replace older white men from these positions is holding us all back.

Our reluctance to replace them with more " proximate " individuals " who are younger and from BAME backgrounds will always hold us back.

And finally on the subject of " Colour " itself.

We need to change our language to bring ourselves and our country kicking and screaming into " Modernity ". Just look up the terminology " Flesh Coloured " in any dictionary of the English Language.

See what it says or what it conjures up in your own mind and ask yourself. " Is that truly accurate ?

By using the phrase "non-whites" you would get ripped into pieces for reproducing the idea that white is the norm.

In theory it is easy to take the moral high ground and do the right thing, in reality it is difficult when people really want you to do the wrong one so that they can have a chance to get offended.

 

[Medwayseagull]

If people still don't understand the offensiveness of the word "coloured" check out the court room scene from the film "cry freedom" about the life and death of Steve Biko in apartheid South Africa. It is the most succinct explanation I have seen.

 

[Medwayseagull]

In which case I’m just going to refer to you as Curious in future x


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Please don't start a debate about orangeness - you just know who, from the USA, is going to want to be at the forefront.

 

[dazzer6666]

If people still don't understand the offensiveness of the word "coloured" check out the court room scene from the film "cry freedom" about the life and death of Steve Biko in apartheid South Africa. It is the most succinct explanation I have seen.

Good shout...........

 

[beorhthelm]

If people still don't understand the offensiveness of the word "coloured" check out the court room scene from the film "cry freedom" about the life and death of Steve Biko in apartheid South Africa. It is the most succinct explanation I have seen.

is something from South Africa relevant to UK? theres a lot of words and terms that have different meaning in different English speaking country, some amusing, some offending. for a generation this term isnt simply non-offensive, its what they were told was not offensive. black was deemed offensive, though wouldn't be today in UK (but might in US). no excuse for Clarke of course, he's been trained, and he managed a full house on offending every group.

 

[Swansman]

is something from South Africa relevant to UK? theres a lot of words and terms that have different meaning in different English speaking country, some amusing, some offending. for a generation this term isnt simply non-offensive, its what they were told was not offensive. black was deemed offensive, though wouldn't be today in UK (but might in US). no excuse for Clarke of course, he's been trained, and he managed a full house on offending every group.

Only their gold and other natural resources.

The negative stuff? Nah, not relevant...

 

[Recidivist]

https://www.rifemagazine.co.uk/2015/01/cant-say-coloured-questions-race-answered/

Found an interesting article on this subject which gives some of the background to this hot topic.

Call me cynical but the main justification for the politically correct version “people of colour” being acceptable seems to be that Martin Luther King used it in one of his speeches!

Personally, I would suggest that both versions are outdated and that we’re dancing on the head of a pin labelling people racist on the strength of using the non-politically correct version....


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[Steve in Japan]

John Barnes on LBC having a real pop at "old white people". He is steaming mad.

 

[nicko31]

Another honest question. I am of a generation that was taught at school to use the polite term 'coloured people' rather than 'black men' or any of the even more derogatory alternatives. I have always tried to keep up with the changes, although like many I have used an out of date term accidentally, but I don't think I've slipped too often; my heart's in the right place.

What I want to know is, who is it decides when a polite, non-derogatory expression becomes unacceptable, an insult, and even to some people racist? And why do they need to keep changing it?

I think if you asked most people of that generation which term is racist, "coloured" or "of colour" a fair few would get it wrong, my parents in their 70's included

The comment from Clark was a slip and he should have known better, the comment about being gay as being a choice wasn't great.

After GC's plan for the PL / EFL was aired maybe its time he moved on anyway

 

[NooBHA]

By using the phrase "non-whites" you would get ripped into pieces for reproducing the idea that white is the norm.

In theory it is easy to take the moral high ground and do the right thing, in reality it is difficult when people really want you to do the wrong one so that they can have a chance to get offended.

Typical - As soon as there is a suggestion that middle aged rich white men relinquish Power. Go straight on the offensive. Although you were one of the last people I expected that type of response from.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think if you asked most people of that generation which term is racist, "coloured" or "of colour" a fair few would get it wrong, my parents in their 70's included

The comment from Clark was a slip and he should have known better, the comment about being gay as being a choice wasn't great.

After GC's plan for the PL / EFL was aired maybe its time he moved on anyway

I know I’ve used ‘coloured’ in the not too distant past (and kicked myself afterwards) but likewise my parents and grandparents would have done the same throughout my lifetime - was only perhaps 5 years ago my Grandmother was still using ‘Darkie’ - but it’s virtually impossible to re-educate a 94 year old, however embarrassing it is to be chatting with her when she uses the term (in her care home, with BAME staff within earshot).

As such a high profile figure, to say it (in a very public forum) and compound it with his other comments (which were at least as bad, if not worse - it’s just that the ‘coloured’ comment is being used as the headline-grabber) made his position untenable. Difficult to know if it points to a deeper mindset.........or just ‘old habits’.

 

[NooBHA]

Funny isn’t it, how we castigate someone for defining people by their colour, then promptly lump everyone under the BAME banner as a means of identification.

I understand from fairly basic research that many people don’t like being described as BAME, finding it offensive and even racist.

My post did not refer to anyone as being " BAME "

It made reference to many different groups of people from " BAME " Backgrounds.

It is not a offensive terminology.

 

[Rogero]

I think if you asked most people of that generation which term is racist, "coloured" or "of colour" a fair few would get it wrong, my parents in their 70's included

The comment from Clark was a slip and he should have known better, the comment about being gay as being a choice wasn't great.

After GC's plan for the PL / EFL was aired maybe its time he moved on anyway

Yes, I am confused . The News reports from the US describe the new vice president as a woman of colour. This is ok then I guess??

 

[Swansman]

Typical - As soon as there is a suggestion that middle aged rich white men relinquish Power. Go straight on the offensive. Although you were one of the last people I expected that type of response from.

People are easily offended, regardless if its morally right or wrong to say that they are. People of all ages, races, occupations and classes.

Rich white men have power, yes. No shit. Im not disagreeing with that. But I disagree with the overly simplistic view that "people are hiding behind the generational defense" and that "our reluctance to get rid of old white people are holding us all back", because its not that simple. It wouldnt result in some rainbow coloured paradise where we all would live in peace in harmony, petting the unicorns and blowing bubbles.

Im not saying its the case with this "Greg Clarke" guy, because all of his brain seems to be encaged in some forgotten part of the Jurassic Park, but the current climate where no one is willing to forgive any type of mistake and where people always are trying to find darkness in the best of intentions, its always going to be difficult to improve society - no matter who we put in charge.

Its not easy to do the right thing in a world where people dont want you to.
You use the phrase "non whites", with the best of intentions? "Racist, reinforcing the idea of white as the norm".
Marcus Rashford misses a goal chance? "Spoiled little **** who should focus more on football rather than fighting for the kids, as he is only doing it for PR purposes".

It continues forever. "Out with the old and in with the new" is very often presented as the solution that will make everyone happy and solve all the problems but it is very rare that reality is that simple.

 

[lost in london]

He doesn't deserve to be branded a racist.

However, words matter. If you're in the top positions where you represent our football and have to champion diversity, you get paid the big bucks to get these things right.

Had to go

I think he was racist. We all may make mistakes and struggle to keep up despite best intentions, but we're not fronting the FA in a parliamentary committee. He's being paid a colossal salary to get that right. He showed his true colours in that committee.

 

[darkwolf666]

My post did not refer to anyone as being " BAME "

It made reference to many different groups of people from " BAME " Backgrounds.

It is not a offensive terminology.

I wasn't referring directly to your use of the phrase BAME, more the current fad for using this term, that many who fall into that category find derogatory and unnecessary.

 

[lawros left foot]

https://www.rifemagazine.co.uk/2015/01/cant-say-coloured-questions-race-answered/

Found an interesting article on this subject which gives some of the background to this hot topic.

Call me cynical but the main justification for the politically correct version “people of colour” being acceptable seems to be that Martin Luther King used it in one of his speeches!

Personally, I would suggest that both versions are outdated and that we’re dancing on the head of a pin labelling people racist on the strength of using the non-politically correct version....


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This is a bit disengenous.

Doctor Martin Luther King , in his very famous “I have a dream” speech used the term ‘ colored people’ or ‘ ‘colored citizen’ far more than the once he used the term’ people of color’

He was also known to use the term ‘Negro’ to describe Afro-American people.

Language changes, it always has done.
Gay used to be happy, Queer used to be strange.

 

[blue-shifted]

I wasn't referring directly to your use of the phrase BAME, more the current fad for using this term, that many who fall into that category find derogatory and unnecessary.

It's bit of a minefield isn't it

 

[NooBHA]

People are easily offended, regardless if its morally right or wrong to say that they are. People of all ages, races, occupations and classes.

Rich white men have power, yes. No shit. Im not disagreeing with that. But I disagree with the overly simplistic view that "people are hiding behind the generational defense" and that "our reluctance to get rid of old white people are holding us all back", because its not that simple. It wouldnt result in some rainbow coloured paradise where we all would live in peace in harmony, petting the unicorns and blowing bubbles.

Im not saying its the case with this "Greg Clarke" guy, because all of his brain seems to be encaged in some forgotten part of the Jurassic Park, but the current climate where no one is willing to forgive any type of mistake and where people always are trying to find darkness in the best of intentions, its always going to be difficult to improve society - no matter who we put in charge.

Its not easy to do the right thing in a world where people dont want you to.
You use the phrase "non whites", with the best of intentions? "Racist, reinforcing the idea of white as the norm".
Marcus Rashford misses a goal chance? "Spoiled little **** who should focus more on football rather than fighting for the kids, as he is only doing it for PR purposes".

It continues forever. "Out with the old and in with the new" is very often presented as the solution that will make everyone happy and solve all the problems but it is very rare that reality is that simple.

No one is saying that the transition is easy or is a magical cure. It's our reluctance to even go there or move towards it.

Let's just wait and see who his replacement is .

 

[darkwolf666]

It's bit of a minefield isn't it

It certainly is, and probably isn't helped by trying to lump everyone in together - bit like the ever growing "group" - LGBTQIAPK.