Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[yxee]

And now confirmed that an anti-austerity coalition has been formed. Will the EU and Germany finally get the bloody nose they deserve ?

The cheek of lending someone money!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The cheek of lending someone money!

Or maybe the foolishness of lending someone money you know is breaking your rules and can't possibly pay it back ?

 

[Triggaaar]

It is beyon doubt that both sides want the same outcome, the Germans (and wider EU) dont want Greece out for the sake of EZ integrity and stability, the Greeks want to stay in the EZ for sake of their economy. On this basis I can't think that they wont be able to come to sme kind of fudge that suit both parties.

The problem is that Greece's creditors will want some of the debt to be repaid and whatever is agreed, Greece will fail to make the payments they agree to make, and they'll continue to need to borrow more, and this will continue until the creditors can take no more.

 

[onepostwonder]

who else bet on the eur/gbp going down and usd/eur going up 10 days ago

rock n roll.

 

[Buzzer]

the Greeks want to stay in the EZ for sake of their economy.

I think this is where we'll have to agree to disagree. The Greek political establishment might want to keep the status quo, I think the Greek people DO want out of the Euro or at least away from being dictated to by Merkel and given the way that they have abandoned PASOK for the extremists on both sides, they really don't care what the rest of Europe thinks. I've been keeping a close eye on the news for this election and time and again when interviewing people the response is...perhaps we should revert back to the drachma because things can't get much worse. And if this new government fail to sate the electorate's feelings then goodness knows what's next.

 

[yxee]

Or maybe the foolishness of lending someone money you know is breaking your rules and can't possibly pay it back ?

What rules? They got a 180bn bail out because their economy was a mess. They should be happy they were saved, not angry that they have to repay!

 

[onepostwonder]

What rules? They got a 180bn bail out because their economy was a mess. They should be happy they were saved, not angry that they have to repay!

they didn't get a bailout - the bailout just gives more chips to the banks and hedge funds to play with in the markets-casino. It's not as if each person got e5k or something is it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What rules? They got a 180bn bail out because their economy was a mess. They should be happy they were saved, not angry that they have to repay!

I wasn't talking about the bail out.

When the Eurozone was created there were strict criteria members had to meet before being able to join. Greece couldn't meet all of the criteria but Germany and France persuaded the rest of the members to allow Greece is anyway. This released huge amounts of cheap credit to Greece. Who loaned a large part of that money ? Germany. Why ? because Greece then spent a lot of it on infrastructure projects run by .... German firms. While Greece hasn't helped itself there are other guilty parties to this disaster and they aren't paying the price unlike Greece - or more accurately the people of Greece many of whom have lost their jobs, homes and can't afford healthcare or even food.

 

[beorhthelm]

they didn't get a bailout - the bailout just gives more chips to the banks and hedge funds to play with in the markets-casino. It's not as if each person got e5k or something is it.

the bailout meant the government was able to continue, with civil servents, pensions, benefits etc paid out. so yes, it is as if each person got something.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think this is where we'll have to agree to disagree. The Greek political establishment might want to keep the status quo, I think the Greek people DO want out of the Euro or at least away from being dictated to by Merkel and given the way that they have abandoned PASOK for the extremists on both sides, they really don't care what the rest of Europe thinks. I've been keeping a close eye on the news for this election and time and again when interviewing people the response is...perhaps we should revert back to the drachma because things can't get much worse. And if this new government fail to sate the electorate's feelings then goodness knows what's next.

Personally, I think the Greeks don't really give a stuff about the EU at the moment...they just want an end to austerity however this arrives.

I also thought I saw some polls relating to this a while back. I also think the fact the Syriza leader went from a firm unequivocal EU-out to prefer-EU-in in the election run up with no one really challenging him speaks volumes. That's some shift in stance.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...-what-you-need-to-know-about-syrizas-victory/

This references a poll from last week where 74% of Greeks prefer to remain in the EU. The new government were voted in on this premise as well.....albeit due to a last minute change to their stance....possibly influenced by the feeling on the ground?

 

[onepostwonder]

Best thing Greece can do is go back to a de-vauled Drachma, and tell the EU to shove their debt up their arse.

They won't be able to travel abroad much, but the country will get back on it's feet........and cause mayhem in the EU.

 

[BigGully]

I have a bit of a soft spot for Greece in all of this, yep they do not work too hard and pay little tax, but Merkel could of saved time and money by phoning me before she cooked the books and allowed them entry, I could of told her that.

If Merkel still has my number I could tell her that the Spanish take siestas and the Italians well, you know what they are like, basically anywhere we go on Summer holidays, will accept billions of your Euros but you might need to wait longer than expected to get it back.

 

[jakarta]

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffee...-what-you-need-to-know-about-syrizas-victory/

This references a poll from last week where 74% of Greeks prefer to remain in the EU. The new government were voted in on this premise as well.....albeit due to a last minute change to their stance....possibly influenced by the feeling on the ground?

Of course they want to stay in the Club, they just don't want to pay their Membership Fees.

Other Members may feel differently of course.......

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Best thing Greece can do is go back to a de-vauled Drachma, and tell the EU to shove their debt up their arse.

They won't be able to travel abroad much, but the country will get back on it's feet........and cause mayhem in the EU.

I don't think it will. Assuming you mean financial mayhem the EU is in a much better financial position these days to withstand an exit and would arguably be better off without Greece. Arguably this is why the markets are not overly worried.

 

[spring hall convert]

Agreed about the wider political ripples, I'm not so sure about the Grexit. The new Finance Minster was on R4 this morning and was a lot milder in his pre election rhetoric and demands on the troika and debt repayment (according to the President of a Greek bank also on the call). This Syzria minister admitted that there had been posturing in the election build in relation to their demands.

It is beyon doubt that both sides want the same outcome, the Germans (and wider EU) dont want Greece out for the sake of EZ integrity and stability, the Greeks want to stay in the EZ for sake of their economy. On this basis I can't think that they wont be able to come to sme kind of fudge that suit both parties.

I think the real damage as you have noted is in the wider EU electorate in that we are looking at the fundamental problem with the euro; which is trying to square the damands of a state's national interests with a proxy federal currency that requires intra Governmental power. Economic unity is worthless unless it sits alongside a coherent political unity.

The reporting of the post election story neatly sums up this dichotomy, in that it has essentially been about how the political leadership of Germany will react to a democractic decision made by the Greek people.

The prognosis will be for more boiled sugar suits all round.

A fudge would suit quite a few in Europe, I reckon. Might it be used as a catalyst for talks around real change in Europe? I can see other countries getting a bit of what Greece is getting, whilst the net contributors will be after some tradeable concessions. Might this end up being the opportunity Cameron has been looking for to renegociate Schengen?

 

[spring hall convert]

What rules? They got a 180bn bail out because their economy was a mess. They should be happy they were saved, not angry that they have to repay!

Saved from what though?
Repay what and to whom?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Great news for Europe. Huge middle finger up to the EU. Could this be the beginning of a socialist revolution, as more countries follow suit and opt to vote in left wing parliaments?

The Greeks vote in a government which a) prefers to remain in the EU and b) work with the EU to resolve their debt issue. Where's the middle-finger exactly? But I agree, this is good news for Europe.

 

[jakarta]

A key part of their campaign was about convincing the EU to write off half of their debt.

Ex BBC News: As finance ministers met in Brussels, Finnish Prime Minister Alexander Stubb warned his country had no intention of writing off Greece's debts but suggested the loan repayment period could be extended.

"The starting principle is that we will not extend any debt forgiveness but we are ready to discuss programme extensions and loan period extensions," he said

Doesn't sound like they have convinced them as yet......

 

[yxee]

Saved from what though?
Repay what and to whom?

Saved from a run on the banks and economic meltdown, repay what they owe to their creditors.