[Football] Grassroots Refs Abused and Spat at.

[The Seagull]

A recent 6 a side tournament my son was involved in, 3 referees went home during the tournament due to excessive abuse. And one tournament in shoreham they announced any abuse and the team who that supporter/abuser comes from will be immediately disqualified.

 

[Eeyore]

This is why I defend refs so much on here. Even ones that do seem lacking.

No ref, not even the best, can get all the decisions right. It is down to interpretation of a situation that happens at high speed.

But when you look at the language used by a number of folk, even some on here, you can see the problem.

Zero slack for officials abuse. You see little of it in professional rugby where there is far more scope for errors. Only the captain should be allowed to talk to the ref.

 

[LamieRobertson]

This is why I defend refs so much on here. Even ones that do seem lacking.

No ref, not even the best, can get all the decisions right. It is down to interpretation of a situation that happens at high speed.

But when you look at the language used by a number of folk, even some on here, you can see the problem.

Zero slack for officials abuse. You see little of it in professional rugby where there is far more scope for errors. Only the captain should be allowed to talk to the ref.

I’ve noticed in recent games that’s what is happening at Brighton….Dunk being the player’s representative when the refs decision is being ‘queried’ …exactly as it should be
Though I’ll reserve my right to criticise the ref along with his merry band if they’ve been a wally

 

[chaileyjem]

This is a good piece by Daniel Storey in the Independent on the abuse that PL refs face from millionaire players and managers.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

This is why I defend refs so much on here. Even ones that do seem lacking.

No ref, not even the best, can get all the decisions right. It is down to interpretation of a situation that happens at high speed.

But when you look at the language used by a number of folk, even some on here, you can see the problem.

Zero slack for officials abuse. You see little of it in professional rugby where there is far more scope for errors. Only the captain should be allowed to talk to the ref.

Agreed.

As I said in previous post, there is so much hypocrisy around this from fans and the media, blaming players and managers without looking at themselves. The media will run these respect campaigns and have these debates but then in the last two days I've heard Chelsea fans but also the mainstream media and numerous podcasts critizing Potter for not being angry enough about the Soucek hand ball in his post match press conference!

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

This is a good piece by Daniel Storey in the Independent on the abuse that PL refs face from millionaire players and managers.

.... and supporters and journalists. It's endemic in football. There needs to be a whole culture change.

I don't like Rugby as a sport and get a bit fed up of the constant comparison. BUT, I can see why people do compare the two. There is no abuse of the officials in the press, in the stands and subsequently then from the players or coaches.

Like I said in my previous post about the lack of displayed anger from Potter regarding the handball, there is an expectation that managers and players should be angry and abusive. Unless attitudes towards referee's change from supporters and the media, it will never change on the pitch.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I don't like Rugby as a sport and get a bit fed up of the constant comparison. BUT, I can see why people do compare the two.

One of the greatest disparities between the two, at the top / professional level, is the amount of money at stake.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can maybe advise how much the best & average Premiership rugby player earns.

And how much do the winners of the EPL win compared to the winners of the Premiership Rugby Table?

I think rugby could teach a lot of it's culture and values to football ....

#wonthappen

 

[KZNSeagull]

Rooney at every club literally every match used to tell refs to F@ck Off, did he ever get a red card? . Radio 5 earlier covered the incident where Stam, Neville, Giggs bullied a ref. It wasn't impulsive, it was one of Taggart's incremental gains tactics in games (Dave Brailsford/Matthew Syed ... but without grey matter).

The genie was let out of the bottle in the 1990's, the authorities did very little.

It was before then. Remember that game when David Elleray was mic'ed up in a game involving Arsenal, must have been in the 80's? Arsenal abused him from start to finish but the only time he did anything about it was when Adams called him a cheat.
Some of the stories on R5 this morning are disgraceful. Players stopping the ref leaving by lying on his car bonnet and a 16 year old ref being chased by grown men trying to beat him up because he made a mistake. I am not surprised that people do not want to ref anymore.

 

[jakarta]

This is why I defend refs so much on here. Even ones that do seem lacking.

No ref, not even the best, can get all the decisions right. It is down to interpretation of a situation that happens at high speed.

But when you look at the language used by a number of folk, even some on here, you can see the problem.

Zero slack for officials abuse. You see little of it in professional rugby where there is far more scope for errors. Only the captain should be allowed to talk to the ref.

YouTube Nigel Owens. Massive blokes in a proper contact sport, but a referee about a foot shorter runs the game. No backchat, certainly no abuse.

 

[BBassic]

Yeah I've shouted at the ref from my perch in the WSU more times than I can remember but actually getting in someone's face and spitting at them? Nah. They don't deserve that, no matter how badly you feel they've done.

I'm fully in support of rules around protecting referees. Captains being the only player allowed to talk to them would be a start.

 

[Gwylan]

One of the greatest disparities between the two, at the top / professional level, is the amount of money at stake.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can maybe advise how much the best & average Premiership rugby player earns.

That's not relevant. There was respect shown to rugby refs well before the game went professional and at amateur level, rugby players behave far better than their footballing counterparts.

As I said earlier, it's drummed into rugby players at a very young age and are constantly reminded of it growing up.

 

[Eeyore]

I’ve noticed in recent games that’s what is happening at Brighton….Dunk being the player’s representative when the refs decision is being ‘queried’ …exactly as it should be
Though I’ll reserve my right to criticise the ref along with his merry band if they’ve been a wally

I'm sure refs understand that folk won't be happy with decisions. It comes with the territory. There is a difference between saying a ref had a crap game and calling him or her corrupt and hurling all sorts of abuse at them.

 

[Littlemo]

The problem is so multifaceted. We want to say decisions are right or wrong, when in truth they are subjective and can have multiple interpretations. The ref basically has to pick the one he feels in closest and of course those on the other side won’t agree.

It gets worse when those interpretations are highlighted by the media as being inherently wrong as well. It’s just that they see it differently, I suspect it’s worse because most of the media being naturally highly invested in football also have the associated biases and care about certain clubs and outcomes. They also often don’t actually have a great grasp of the rules themselves, I’ve seen them say X is wrong and then the ref that’s there will explain why it’s right.

I suspect it also didn’t help when managers started blaming bad decisions on being why they win or lose a game. Even taking Sat’s mistake, yes it’s pretty massive to lose a goal to a ref mistake, people will say it changed the game but it still doesn't follow we’d definitely have won - we might have chucked in another goal or we might not have scored Solly’s goal, changed means changed entirely - not just the way we think it would have gone.

I think VAR was mainly introduced because teams couldn’t take the fact that decisions were sometimes wrong and are chasing that absolute right/wrong. They will always be subjective though, that perfect scenario will never come.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What about VAR refs? I think there’s a good case for a few of these to be abused and beaten up.

 

[Weststander]

It was before then. Remember that game when David Elleray was mic'ed up in a game involving Arsenal, must have been in the 80's? Arsenal abused him from start to finish but the only time he did anything about it was when Adams called him a cheat.
Some of the stories on R5 this morning are disgraceful. Players stopping the ref leaving by lying on his car bonnet and a 16 year old ref being chased by grown men trying to beat him up because he made a mistake. I am not surprised that people do not want to ref anymore.

It's funny that you say that, as later I recalled the Arsenal lot under Graham then Wenger gathering around refs, with shouting contorted faces.

Arsenal and Fergie's Manure on an arm's race in trying to gain every advantage. A Manure player wrote about the gathering around refs, something like they send 3 players, we send 4.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

I don’t remember it being a particular problem in the 60s but I think it started when players started getting paid more and more,the job becaming more professional and in many ways more “important” within society. Expectations are higher and mistakes more costly to individuals and clubs. The professional foul should never be accepted as a yellow- it should be a red. Swearing at officials should never be acceptable, but it is. Hounding officials is just wrong. There is a lot to clean up.

 

[SAC]

It seems that most fans (if this thread is a true representation) feel that tougher punishments are needed. Why then wont the FA do something?

This was 5 months ago but still nothing much is happening.Guardian

 

[MJsGhost]

Whilst this is well and good us having this well meaning debate on this thread, there's a couple of other threads on here where we're massively laying into officials for a human mistake they made on Saturday. As every week referee's are abused by our fans and fans of all other teams in the ground. To be honest I feel a lot of the time, the players are playing up to the crowd and feeding off them and I think it's hypocritical for fans to criticize players for doing it when the reactions from the stands are much worse every week. That's what the kids are also learning from.

Until we as supporters can stop aggressively abusing referee's, are the players ever going to stop?

This.

I get the emotion of the moment, but there's a massive difference between a frustrated "For f***'s sake!" shouted at nobody in particular and the snarling, frothing at the mouth, vitriolic abuse aimed at officials.

I often wonder what those same individuals would say if they made a mistake in whatever line of work they are in and a customer* shouted a load of aggressive abuse at them.




* I know, I know, but it would be weird to suggest there might be 'fans' at most people's place of work

 

[Bold Seagull]

Whilst this is well and good us having this well meaning debate on this thread, there's a couple of other threads on here where we're massively laying into officials for a human mistake they made on Saturday. As every week referee's are abused by our fans and fans of all other teams in the ground. To be honest I feel a lot of the time, the players are playing up to the crowd and feeding off them and I think it's hypocritical for fans to criticize players for doing it when the reactions from the stands are much worse every week. That's what the kids are also learning from.

Until we as supporters can stop aggressively abusing referee's, are the players ever going to stop?

I was amazed at the weekend that various pundits were actually criticising Potter for not blaming Chelsea only drawing on the referee. They were actually calling on him to shift all the blame onto the referee as part of his job, rather than any encouragement or praise of the approach of not blaming things outside your own control.

This shows how systemic football's attitude to officiating is. It is deeply ingrained, and while these attitudes appear to be acceptable, what hope do we have for Sunday pub team players being respectful with a hangover on a cold Sunday morning!?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Whilst this is well and good us having this well meaning debate on this thread, there's a couple of other threads on here where we're massively laying into officials for a human mistake they made on Saturday. As every week referee's are abused by our fans and fans of all other teams in the ground. To be honest I feel a lot of the time, the players are playing up to the crowd and feeding off them and I think it's hypocritical for fans to criticize players for doing it when the reactions from the stands are much worse every week. That's what the kids are also learning from.

Until we as supporters can stop aggressively abusing referee's, are the players ever going to stop?

No one was particularly laying into the on field ref, Michael Oliver, and the noise from the stands was that of a typical derby game. At no point did anyone invade the pitch and gob at him.

Rather, people were pointing out the obvious VAR human error on here and PGMOL agreed and suspended him.

There’s certainly an argument that says the more stick refs get the worse referees you get in games as some good ones will quit. Equally there’s an argument that says the glamour of seeing a PL game up close three or so times a week and being “famous” will drive enough people to want to be top class refs.

Either way it shouldn’t stop people debating the quality of referring and VAR in all forms of media. It’s not the same as chavvy parents bullying a 16 year old ref. That’s a false equivalence