Grass roots review ?

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

Wasn't there supposed to be a big review after the last world cup ? what was the outcome ? why are pundits still saying we need a center of excellence ?

 

[surrey jim]

Havn't they built one/building one in Preston??

 

[Timbo]

I guess the outcome was that we'll up all the fines and subscriptions for every junior football club in the country already scraping their way round affording to put on a kickabout down the park and spunk it all on another foreign manager who we can send on his way with another multi million pound pay off?

 

[strings]

Havn't they built one/building one in Preston??

They started building one near Burton (very next to my other half's parents house) a few years back, but run out of money when Wembley's costs spiralled out of control and halted building. I believe they have now recommenced with this project.

Developing grass roots is all about putting money into youth football. The amount of money at the top is obsene, yet is never seems to filter down. Conversely, my rugby club have had new floodlights on our second and third pitches this summer, paid for by the RFU, meaning that teams (youth teams and otherwise) can train through winter without messing up the first team pitch. Also, we are having two pitches relaid with proper draininge underneith, so that a game is never called off due to waterlogged pitches. The RFU are paying half of the cost for this.

So, for a small rugby club with a medium-sized youth setup, we have had loads of money from the Rugby Football Union this summer. I bet a football club our size would get nothing from the FA.

 

[Gwylan]

They started building one near Burton (very next to my other half's parents house) a few years back, but run out of money when Wembley's costs spiralled out of control and halted building. I believe they have now recommenced with this project.

Developing grass roots is all about putting money into youth football. The amount of money at the top is obsene, yet is never seems to filter down. Conversely, my rugby club have had new floodlights on our second and third pitches this summer, paid for by the RFU, meaning that teams (youth teams and otherwise) can train through winter without messing up the first team pitch. Also, we are having two pitches relaid with proper draininge underneith, so that a game is never called off due to waterlogged pitches. The RFU are paying half of the cost for this.

So, for a small rugby club with a medium-sized youth setup, we have had loads of money from the Rugby Football Union this summer. I bet a football club our size would get nothing from the FA.

It's interesting that both cricket and rugby have started filtering more money down to the clubs and spreading the cash. Football and tennis try to keep as much cash foe the big teams and private clubs as possible. I wonder which sports are being more successful at producing decent national teams.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The England National Football Centre [Burton] IS being built.

That is all.

 

[Gus Poyet's inner FLAIR]

Didn't we used to have a some kind of centre for excellence at Lilleshall?

 

[beorhthelm]

It's interesting that both cricket and rugby have started filtering more money down to the clubs and spreading the cash.

its interesting but isnt it due to the way the money is raised int he first place? The Rugby and Cricket national teams contract the players to the "elite" team, rather than rely on clubs to contract them. They also get the larger proportion of money into those sports, were as in Football the money goes direct to the clubs/leagues. its not about "keeping" the money with the big clubs, it never goes to the FA.

how can this be changed? should all club pay a % of gate or shirt sales to the FA maybe?

 

[Rookie]

They started building one near Burton (very next to my other half's parents house) a few years back, but run out of money when Wembley's costs spiralled out of control and halted building. I believe they have now recommenced with this project.

Developing grass roots is all about putting money into youth football. The amount of money at the top is obsene, yet is never seems to filter down. Conversely, my rugby club have had new floodlights on our second and third pitches this summer, paid for by the RFU, meaning that teams (youth teams and otherwise) can train through winter without messing up the first team pitch. Also, we are having two pitches relaid with proper draininge underneith, so that a game is never called off due to waterlogged pitches. The RFU are paying half of the cost for this.

So, for a small rugby club with a medium-sized youth setup, we have had loads of money from the Rugby Football Union this summer. I bet a football club our size would get nothing from the FA.

As said above the FA have just been given permission to continue building the centre at Burton. Don't think gross roots is the problem though u21 got to Euro final last year while u 17 are Euro champions.

 

[Marshy]

As has been Said our U17 won the Euros and our U21s lost in the final we have the players...

Wether they will get a game in a prem side is another matter....

 

[Brovion]

...The Rugby and Cricket national teams contract the players to the "elite" team, rather than rely on clubs to contract them. ...

It's true that one of the problems is that in football the people with the money and the influence (the premier league and specifically the Big Four) all see the national side as a hinderance, a distraction - but doesn't the same apply in the other 'big' nations in Europe? Or do Bundesliga clubs (for example) care more about the German team than EPL clubs care about England? (That's a genuine question BTW, maybe they do).

 

[Gwylan]

its interesting but isnt it due to the way the money is raised int he first place? The Rugby and Cricket national teams contract the players to the "elite" team, rather than rely on clubs to contract them. They also get the larger proportion of money into those sports, were as in Football the money goes direct to the clubs/leagues. its not about "keeping" the money with the big clubs, it never goes to the FA.

how can this be changed? should all club pay a % of gate or shirt sales to the FA maybe?

That's very true - I know that there are not exact parallels. But I do know that the ECB thought long and hard about England's poor performances and have completely restructured English cricket - we're seeing the results now.

Your suggestion is a good idea: that's one thing that the FA could do - all clubs should pay a percentage to the FA ringfenced for youth development.

 

[Gwylan]

Or do Bundesliga clubs (for example) care more about the German team than EPL clubs care about England? (That's a genuine question BTW, maybe they do).

I'm pretty sure that all Bundesliga teams are German-owned and run. One thing that's noticeable about German football is the number of ex-players who crop up in executive positions: Beckenbauer, Hoeness and Rumenigge (to name just three) have become 'suits' - something that you hardly see in English football. I think that must help strengthen links between the clubs and the German FA.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

being a devils advocate is funding grass roots football enough ? We have a population of 50 million in England, there must be hundreds of thousands of kids that play for clubs on a saturday, have coaching or 'on the books of teams' - I don't know but I would guess our infrastructure is better than Argentinas ? so why is it that we only had one 'world class striker' ?

 

[Brovion]

being a devils advocate is funding grass roots football enough ? We have a population of 50 million in England, there must be hundreds of thousands of kids that play for clubs on a saturday, have coaching or 'on the books of teams' - I don't know but I would guess our infrastructure is better than Argentinas ? so why is it that we only had one 'world class striker' ?

I agree. At the kids' level a lot of it is the 'wrong sort' of playing though: little teams of under-11's, all kitted out in matching shirts, shorts and socks, playing 'pretend premier league' games for worthless plastic trophies.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

I agree. At the kids' level a lot of it is the 'wrong sort' of playing though: little teams of under-11's, all kitted out in matching shirts, shorts and socks, playing 'pretend premier league' games for worthless plastic trophies.

This sounds very sad. I was a junior rugby coach in the 1990's and I don't think we (Cranleigh) played in a formal league until the colts (ie U18); it may have been at U16, but the memory is failing.
At the mini rugby level U6-U12, the emphasis was/is on technique, skill development and trying to take the player size factor out. Touch rugby only until U8, reduced size pitches, no kicking or line-outs, uncontested scrums only from U10 etc, etc. The rules prescribed nationally by the English RFU - and all the players have to be insured against injury by the rugby club.
We'd spend most sunday mornings on squad coaching/training and I find the idea of a bunch of U11's playing league games most weeks quite worrying. Still maybe that's what they and the parents want?

 

[MJsGhost]

I agree. At the kids' level a lot of it is the 'wrong sort' of playing though: little teams of under-11's, all kitted out in matching shirts, shorts and socks, playing 'pretend premier league' games for worthless plastic trophies.

Exactly.

You've touched on what I think is the major reason behind the ineptitude of our current national side.
While his performance may not have been perfect, I do not blame Capello.
Whilst collectively awful, I don't look at any particular player and blame them for not trying or not caring as if they made some sort of decision not to do well.
To me, it runs much deeper than that and will need a massive change in the way kids are taught football right from the very start.

As I see it, the problem is that the way we play the game in this country is outdated. The aggressive, physical game - lauding the player who 'puts himself about' and has a physical approach and ignoring the more subtle qualities like the ability to pass, move and have the discipline to maintain their position within a system. FIFA have changed rules to encourage more technical football and penalise the teams that in the past physically intimidated their opponents (it really doesn’t take much to get a booking these days). English football has got left behind - why? Arrogance - we invented the game after all, we have the 'best league in the world' after all, so surely all is well?

For me, it begins at the youngest level - kids are pushed into playing on pitches that are far too big from far too early an age, meaning that the successful teams are the ones with the biggest lads and the fastest runners. This is because the adults in charge - be it the coaches or parents (often one & the same) want to replicate an adult game. You get the parents on the side, screaming away for little Johnny to get 'stuck in' or to 'just get rid of it' and hoof clear rather than get caught in possession anywhere near the goal. Whilst I don't advocate losing possession near their goal, surely at that level, the important thing is to get the kids playing the game in the right way, learning the skills and enjoying it - not live in fear that they'll make a mistake and forever be labelled the kid that cost the goal that lost the final of the Glynde & District u7 challenge cup?
Small pitches, small goals, small teams (5 or 6-a-side) will get kids passing, make them more skilful because of the restricted space and will get away from the 'kick & rush', just get it to the big, fast kid mentality. Yes have competitive games, but not to the level of overkill and certainly not on a full-sized pitch until they are somewhat approaching adult size themselves.

There is so much resistance from parents (presumably the same people who bellow for more blood & thunder whether at the Withdean or Wembley) for this kind of thing as they don't see it as proper football, that I'm not sure it'll ever change. Expect plenty more disappointment at international tournaments if so...

 

[Safe.]

Top post.

 

[The Wizard]

We should send loads of our youngsters abroad, to play in spain I reckon. PASS PASS PASS.

 

[tonymgc]

Another one? Didn't they have one when McLaren went too?