Good to see 2 black mangers on the sidelines

[BigBod]

Do you know it never even occurred to me that we had a black manager until this thread appeared.

Nor me...

 

[stripeyshark]

I think the issue is more complex than that presented by many on this forum. Given that the vast majority of people who go into football management have done so having played the game professionally, it possible to argue that BME groups are significantly under-represented as managers in the premiership and football leagues. As such, professional football players are the population we should be looking at as the base from which to make such assessments, not the national population as a whole.

Why must a race group be over represented in one field just because they are in another? Being a football manager is a completely different skill to being a footballer. Black players often seem to have an advantage with speed and strength which helps in football, but in management, that attribute does not help. So yes, if a comparison is to be made then it should be with the population as a whole, not with football players.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Do you know it never even occurred to me that we had a black manager until this thread appeared.

We have a manager? Who knew.

 

[sir albion]

I don't think there's a big issue re under representation of black British people in football.

HOWEVER the under representation of British people of Asian descent is ridiculous.

7% of the population of the UK are Asian/Asian British, yet I doubt there's even a dozen pro players of that ethnicity in British football.

THAT is the real issue.

(Racists will say Asians prefer cricket, but football is in fact more popular these days. There are a number of Asian community based teams in non-league, 10% of the teams in the Essex Senior League for example, but this doesn't seem to be translating to the professional game.)

It's a fact they will follow their roots and play cricket because many don't intergrate into the british way like most who moved here or are moving here.
Asia equals cricket wether they're born here or not

 

[Steve in Japan]

Which one of the two was baby Jesus in?

I wish somebody would correct the typo in the thread subject. It's driving me nuts. But maybe it means "eater" and not a straw box? Who knows.

 

[BrianWade4]

Do you really think so? Maybe at Manager/Head Coach level but certainly not at player level. I'm not too sure minorities go in for running the line or reffing as I've never seen many at junior level so it's hardly surprising they're not coming through to senior level in numbers

Not players
Definitely Manager level - 6 of 92 pro mangers in England are black. Under represented compared to players

The greatest problem is in the boardrooms...

 

[BrianWade4]

3% of the uk population are black.

4.3% of managers in the premier and football league are black.

Why do we need more black managers? If you want racial equality, stop making race such an issue.

My point was more there seem opportunities for players who are BME but less so for more senior roles - managers and CEOs etc

 

[BrianWade4]

Well a quick search and this data is from 2009

11-Oct-2008 England 5 Kazakhstan 1 [0-0] The National Stadium, Wembley, London WCP 8/14 57.14
Notes David James, Wes Brown, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Theo Walcott and Emile Heskey all started. Shaun Wright-Phillips was a half-time minute substitute. Walcott was replaced after 79 minutes, before Jermain Defoe came on after an 87 minutes.
867 10-Sep-2008 Croatia 1 England 4 [0-1] Stadion Maksimir, Zagreb WCP 7/14 50.0
Notes David James, Wes Brown, Ashley Cole, Rio Ferdinand, Theo Walcott and Emile Heskey all started. Jermaine Jenas was a 56th minute substitute. Walcott scored a hat-trick, before coming off after 85 minutes.
866 06-Sep-2008 Andorra 0 England 2 [0-0] Estadi Olímpic Lluís Companys, Montjuïc, Barcelona, Spain WCP 7/14 50.0
Notes David James, Glen Johnson, Ashley Cole, Joleon Lescott, Theo Walcott and Jermain Defoe all started. Emile Heskey replaced Defoe as a half-time substitute.

So, 50% of the England team were coloured or of mixed race.

Considering in 2011 according to wikipedia, 87% of the UK is made up of white people, and 5% are black or mixed raced, I would say the England side was over represented by black players, and white players are under represented. Do I find this a disgrace as the OP does in the case of black managers and officials, not at all. Why, because I am not racist and if 50% of the England team are black, so what, if they are the best, then who cares.

Why is there so few black managers, well if the wikipedia stats are correct I'd say there's not, and that its about right.

Chris Hughton, Chris Powell, John Barnes and Paul Ince all prove the point, if you are good enough, you will succeed, if you are no good and a poor manager, ala Paul Ince, or John "Lets play the race card" Barnes you won't.

So if the OP thinks its a disgrace that at the moment there are four black managers in the UK leagues, out of 92 clubs which is about 4%, yet according the wikipedia 5% of the British population are black or mixed race, we are 1% short of having a fair ratio.

So what does the OP think of the 2008 stats that 50% of England footballers were black or mixed race, yet 87% of the Uk population is white? A 37% difference? Is he disgusted that white British people are so heavily under represented in the national side, or is he like me, and doesn't give a flying ****, so long as they are the best available, whether they are white, black, green, orange, or purple??

My point is more that black / mixed race people get opps as players but don't seem to get chances in senior roles

It's why the FA is considering the 'Rooney rule' as used in the US

 

[BrianWade4]

What are they being, if not PC. It's the way people like this work. They come in with a comment that has no basis, cannot be backed up, and when challenged on it, go AWOL. Reminds me of the greens and the far left! But let not get of subject, and give BrianWade4 a chance to explain his opening post.

I would go as far to say they should be banned for a while for posting racist comments.

I fear we will lose Rohan Ince, and think he should be given the longest contract at the club, rather than one that expires next summer.

I don't say that because he's black, and I want to see a percentage of black players at the Albion. I say it because he's the best and most promising player we have IMO!

Sorry for delayed response. Can't view NSC at work

In short, it's not an easy one....

I recall Chris Hughton's comments which someone else posted

I think players get chances from BME backgrounds, but struggle to progress to senior roles in managing or running clubs

To take one analogy, if so many BME players appeared for Engkand why can't they progress onto senior roles post playing

Check out the latest research by the LMA AND FA

As an aside, I am not PC or left wing

 

[BrianWade4]

I think the issue is more complex than that presented by many on this forum. Given that the vast majority of people who go into football management have done so having played the game professionally, it possible to argue that BME groups are significantly under-represented as managers in the premiership and football leagues. As such, professional football players are the population we should be looking at as the base from which to make such assessments, not the national population as a whole.

That was my point which admittedly you explained better than me (since corrected)

 

[BrianWade4]

Why must a race group be over represented in one field just because they are in another? Being a football manager is a completely different skill to being a footballer. Black players often seem to have an advantage with speed and strength which helps in football, but in management, that attribute does not help. So yes, if a comparison is to be made then it should be with the population as a whole, not with football players.

A thought but maybe BME are only perceived as quick and strong (physical qualities) to make good players, and therefore not perceived to have mental strengths to be managers, CEOs

 

[Tubby-McFat-Fuc]

My point is more that black / mixed race people get opps as players but don't seem to get chances in senior roles

It's why the FA is considering the 'Rooney rule' as used in the US

So do you think we need to address the reason why so many white players do not get the opportunity to play professional football, while so many black/mixed race men do?

Do you think that would warrant looking into?

How do we go about making sure a higher percentage of white players get to be professional footballers?

I would imagine from you opening post, you know the percentages of players in the game that are white British, black British, or overseas non British. That might help if you are saying a certain section is under or over represented.

I would also image you would know the stats of how many of these British Black players have applied for managers jobs?

Or maybe it would be better if people like you, didn't go around labeling people black and white, and just got on with things, as I believe there are more black players percentage of the population wise, as more black people percentage wise are better players than white players. I believe there are more white managers, as tare better managers than black managers, no other reason.

So if you think its disgraceful that so few managers that are black, maybe you should find it more disgraceful why there are so few white players as the discrepancy is much higher?

Or, better still, stop labelling people black and white, as until people do, it's going to be hard for everyone to see people for the person they are, rather than the colour of their skin. IMO you are doing far more harm than good, starting threads like this, as is anyone who does similar in any walk of life, no matter how good their intentions are.

 

[stripeyshark]

A thought but maybe BME are only perceived as quick and strong (physical qualities) to make good players, and therefore not perceived to have mental strengths to be managers, CEOs

That's a load of bollocks really.

There is no link between the two and you know it. There are an equal number of BME representatives in managerial roles compared to the population - it's fair. Making race an issue - like you are doing - is not helpful.

 

[BBassic]

Its a tricky one.

People should, of course, be hired on ability and not skin colour but its possible that the lack of, say black managers, is putting young black managers off; maybe they see it as something of a glass ceiling.

I don't know, I'm just speculating.

 

[Uncle C]

And I thought a black manger was a deadly spider.

 

[Ferring Marine]

And I thought a black manger was a deadly spider.

A black manger might produce a better starting line up than you know who.
He'd know who's best.