[Albion] Good Chris Hughton interview today

[dazzer6666]

"He set the team up, he says, in the best way to achieve a result while always believing that he could win every match."

I don't believe that to be the case at all. Not for a second. Time after time, what I saw was a team set up not to go out to win, but primarily one that was set up to avoid defeat. Which is understandable and excusable when you're away at Spurs or Liverpool, but absolutely unacceptable when you are at home to Southampton or Newcastle.

He may not have meant to, but unfortunately, he ended up coaching fear into us. Not helped of course by his incessant talking up of the opposition.

It felt like our plan was 'Hold it at 0-0 for as long as possible, on the off-chance we nick one from a set piece or on the break'. Rinse and repeat, regardless of the opposition.

 

[Sue1983]

It felt like our plan was 'Hold it at 0-0 for as long as possible, on the off-chance we nick one from a set piece or on the break'. Rinse and repeat, regardless of the opposition.

This.

 

[Easy 10]

It felt like our plan was 'Hold it at 0-0 for as long as possible, on the off-chance we nick one from a set piece or on the break'. Rinse and repeat, regardless of the opposition.

Yep, agreed. And the stats would bear that out. Our efforts on goal numbers were pitiful. Since the turn of the year, our 'shots on goal' stats at the Amex were:

Liverpool - 0
Burnley - 6 (we were actually very unlucky in this game, quite apart from the non-penalty farce I recall Heaton having an absolute blinder for them)
Watford - 4 (again, denied by Foster who was on top form)
Southampton - 1
Hudds - 4
Newcastle - 2
Cardiff - 2
Plucky - 1
City - 2

So a grand total of 12 efforts on target in our last 6 games at home, and most of them wouldn't exactly have been screamers, being as a mishit 30-yard dribbler into the keepers arms would count. I haven't even bothered looking at the away stats, as we barely left our own half on the road. Absolutely miserable. It couldn't go on. I was shocked and surprised at the sacking at the time, but when you reflect on just how shocking we were, well...

 

[Bold Seagull]

Facepalm? For what?

Pointing out why Hughton was fired pretty rapidly? You did not respond other than with a childish facepalm.

My comments were totally in context. You referred to what exactly failure was-I pointed out that there were many.

Nonsense. My posts on this thread have been only about him being surprised. All I said to someone else saying he must have thought he had a job for life, was that there was failure below what he achieved.

You got the facepalm because it was just such a typical jump in with your size 10s, how dare someone say Hughton didn't fail, blah blah what about west ham away, this that and the other, wasn't even what I said was it. Jeez.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Bloom said himself he wanted to sack CH in April, but decided against going 'Full Norwich'.

If he had Brighton would have suffered the same fate as Norwich

Did the 83 cup final have a negative impact? Answer-------------we were relegated that season, i believe it did. I think 3rd 4th maybe 5th round is ok. After that players want to be fit for cup games. Foot comes off the pedal in League, its not deliberate it just seems to happen !

There is a record of this happening with teams threatened with relegation - Portsmouth, Middlesbrough, Brighton, Leicester City and Manchester City were relegated Cup finalists – Wigan were the first winners to go down.

I remain convinced we should have stuck with Chris, who had weathered (just) the dreaded second season syndrome pretty well. Yes Rafa did better, but Rafa is a world class manager where Chris is PL solid - exceptional at championship level.

Newcastle had a better squad and a higher wage bill than Brighton.

The CH interview suggests to me he wasn't prepared to change, and that suggests that TB was unprepared to play that hand again.

Evidence?

Hughton was already involved in discussions about next season and potential transfer targets.

Hughton was not expecting to be sacked? I hope he has now returned to earth after spending time in Cloud Cuckoo land. Other clubs would have sacked him long before. Only beating one of the teams in the bottom three, thrashed by Bournemouth 5-0, 0-2 at home against Cardiff, throwing away a 2-0 lead and letting in 4 against Fulham in the second half, struggling to beat Huddersfield at home.

don't forget - kept the club in the PL

As for the link between wages and points, it's a fairly close one IMO as shown below. The romance of football is dead, even getting to the FA Cup semi final is sneered at by many these days.

A team with the 18th wage bill in the PL (and apparently lower than 3 championship clubs) doesn't get relegated. If people don't regard that as a success then there are unrealistic expectations. Was the quality of football bad - absolutely - but it was also what was necessary to stay up. Hughton is one of the most experienced PL managers in the business - he knows what it takes to keep a club in the PL and succeeded in doing it.

I don't think Tony Bloom agrees!

Time will tell if he was right

I'm with you 100% that money now dominates the game.

In 1992 (when Sky bought football) a PL player was on about 5K a week - the lowest paid professional was on about £250 a week. Now the highest paid player is on £500K a week - but the lowest paid player is still on £250 a week.

Football is f*cked because its now about money - and oligarchs - not about the fans or the community or anything like it was 30 years ago. In the era of money the only way to implement any kind of a level playing field is to set the size of the squad, implement a salary cap and implement a minimum wage (and scrap transfer fees - with some sort of player trade to replace it).

I noticed Plucky Bournemouth calling us "Infrastructure FC" last season and if you really can buy places on the ladder then it's not entirely suprising that their investment is targetted on the pitch rather than off. It'll probably take at least 5 years to see who's really got the strategy right.

It has taken Howe 5 years to get the squad PL ready - and now Bournemouth can go out and get players to make them better. However, if Ake leaves then they will have a big hole to fill and that will be a problem.

That said I would have liked to think the board would have discussed this with CH, asking for a response - seeking a different approach. I guess this 'might' have happened but from the way CH puts it - I find it unlikely.

A different approach requires better players - better players requires bigger transfers and a bigger playing budget. Teams that are promoted play 5 years of catch-up just to get to the stage of stablilising PL status - and even then it isn't guaranteed. Hughton spent four and a half years getting and keeping Brighton in the PL. He knew what he was doing and the longer he kept Brighton in the PL the better chance Brighton had of becoming a fixture in the PL. Changing managers creates instability - and to a degree Brighton have taken a step back in appointing Potter because he has no experience of the PL, he is being brought in to have a different gameplan - and there is zero guarantee it will work. We will see what players are signed - and then what Potter does with them. Time will tell if the gamble pays off (and it is a gamble for Bloom).

I do believe that Hughton was genuinely shocked at being sacked - there is no reason to doubt him, in all the time he was at Brighton he was honest in everything he did. You can argue that he should have seen it coming - yet he had succeeded in keeping the club in the PL for two straight seasons. Promoted teams always struggle and bouncing up and down is common (relegated teams have the advantage of parachute payments). Newcastle have been relegated and promoted 4 times since 1992 - Leicester 4 times - Palace 4 times - Wolves 3 times - West Ham 3 times - Sunderland 4 times - Burnley 3 times - WBA 4 times - Birmingham 3 times - Hull 3 times - Bolton 3 times - Norwich 4 times - Reading 3 times - Middlesbrough 3 times - Watford 3 times.

I have said many times that Hughton is an under-rated manager - he is not a big name and he is not flash - but he knows what he is doing and how to get the job done. I expect that he will once again prove his pedigree if he gets another job and I wish the guy every success.

 

[drew]

If he had Brighton would have suffered the same fate as Norwich

You can only speculate on that, we may or may not have gone down.

There is a record of this happening with teams threatened with relegation - Portsmouth, Middlesbrough, Brighton, Leicester City and Manchester City were relegated Cup finalists – Wigan were the first winners to go down.

Have you checked to see how many finalists did avoid relegation? For that matter, how many semi finalists as well? FA cup has nearly be going 140 years and you have five examples.




Evidence?

The evidence was what was happening on the pitch. We set up not to concede and he hoped to nick a goal.

Hughton was already involved in discussions about next season and potential transfer targets.

As you would expect him to be on the basis that TB hadn't made a decision.


A team with the 18th wage bill in the PL (and apparently lower than 3 championship clubs) doesn't get relegated. If people don't regard that as a success then there are unrealistic expectations. Was the quality of football bad - absolutely - but it was also what was necessary to stay up. Hughton is one of the most experienced PL managers in the business - he knows what it takes to keep a club in the PL and succeeded in doing it.

He is far from one of the most experience PL managers. He had two years with Brighton, almost two with Norwich and four and half months with Newcastle. Effectively just over four seasons in the PL


Time will tell if he was right

Unfortunately, not true. We will never know whether it was right or wrong because even if we get relegated under Potter, we will never know whether the same fate would have happened under Hughton. Equally, if we stay up and play better football we won't know whether Hughton would have achieved that.


In 1992 (when Sky bought football) a PL player was on about 5K a week - the lowest paid professional was on about £250 a week. Now the highest paid player is on £500K a week - but the lowest paid player is still on £250 a week.

Football is f*cked because its now about money - and oligarchs - not about the fans or the community or anything like it was 30 years ago. In the era of money the only way to implement any kind of a level playing field is to set the size of the squad, implement a salary cap and implement a minimum wage (and scrap transfer fees - with some sort of player trade to replace it).

Hasn't it always been the same ever since Jimmy Hill got the maximum wage scrapped. During the late 60s, 70s and 80s, the top teams could always afford the larger salaries and transfer fees.

A different approach requires better players - better players requires bigger transfers and a bigger playing budget. Teams that are promoted play 5 years of catch-up just to get to the stage of stablilising PL status - and even then it isn't guaranteed. Hughton spent four and a half years getting and keeping Brighton in the PL. He knew what he was doing and the longer he kept Brighton in the PL the better chance Brighton had of becoming a fixture in the PL. Changing managers creates instability - and to a degree Brighton have taken a step back in appointing Potter because he has no experience of the PL, he is being brought in to have a different gameplan - and there is zero guarantee it will work. We will see what players are signed - and then what Potter does with them. Time will tell if the gamble pays off (and it is a gamble for Bloom).

But we were worse than the first season and the standard by a long way. You have faith that he would do the same in the third season but I and a few others, including TB didn't. Potter is a gamble just as it would be a gamble to keep Hughton. You say he knew what he was doing but I would suggest that he resorted to type (just as Norwich fans said he would) when the going got tough.

I do believe that Hughton was genuinely shocked at being sacked - there is no reason to doubt him, in all the time he was at Brighton he was honest in everything he did. You can argue that he should have seen it coming - yet he had succeeded in keeping the club in the PL for two straight seasons. Promoted teams always struggle and bouncing up and down is common (relegated teams have the advantage of parachute payments). Newcastle have been relegated and promoted 4 times since 1992 - Leicester 4 times - Palace 4 times - Wolves 3 times - West Ham 3 times - Sunderland 4 times - Burnley 3 times - WBA 4 times - Birmingham 3 times - Hull 3 times - Bolton 3 times - Norwich 4 times - Reading 3 times - Middlesbrough 3 times - Watford 3 times.

I'm not going to check them all but haven't Reading only been in the PL twice so not sure how they could get relegated 3 times and Wolves are currently in their third spell so have only gone down twice!

I have said many times that Hughton is an under-rated manager - he is not a big name and he is not flash - but he knows what he is doing and how to get the job done. I expect that he will once again prove his pedigree if he gets another job and I wish the guy every success.

I wish him well but I can't see him ever getting a top job (not even the Republic). And on the basis of our performances over the last half of this season, I can't see anyone turning to him to get them out of a hole.

 

[chaileyjem]

He is far from one of the most experience PL managers. He had two years with Brighton, almost two with Norwich and four and half months with Newcastle. Effectively just over four seasons in the PL.

He was a coach at Spurs for 14 years.

 

[drew]

He was a coach at Spurs for 14 years.

So not the manager then. Not the man who has the final say on tactics, team selection, transfers etc etc.

 

[Icy Gull]

He was a coach at Spurs for 14 years.

Learnt nothing then, have you EVER seen a Spurs team play like the Albion did for most of last season



























This is said tongue in cheek before anyone gets their knickers in a twist about it

 

[chaileyjem]

So not the manager then. Not the man who has the final say on tactics, team selection, transfers etc etc.

No. And your point is ?

 

[OzMike]

I think he had lost the team with his tactics and that being the case there was only going to be one conclusion, which was the right one as far as I am concerened.
It could be a shelf life thing, but we needed to change the soulless game we had adopted.
He did well to keep us up, though the method of doing this did cost him.
Right or wrong only time will tell.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So, for an improvement this season, the minimum we can expect is, finishing above 17th, an FA cup semi final and the double over Palace.

No pressure then, Potter.

 

[BLOCK F]

My God,on it goes; if it wasn't bad enough having to poke up with endless Brexit arguments, we now have 'HUGHXIT' to deal with.
Some on here will soon be asking for a referendum amongst Albion supporters to see if Bloom's decision can be reversed and Hughton reinstated!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My God,on it goes; if it wasn't bad enough having to poke up with endless Brexit arguments, we now have 'HUGHXIT' to deal with.
Some on here will soon be asking for a referendum amongst Albion supporters to see if Bloom's decision can be reversed and Hughton reinstated!

Since you mentioned it, I have completely moved on from CH, but I don't imagine Brexit will ever happen (and don't want it to) so I feel a little besmirched to have my views on CH and Brexit so horribly conflated in this way. A little besmirched.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Newcastle had a better squad and a higher wage bill than Brighton.

We should have beaten Newcastle to the title the season we were promoted. At the time we were all far too ecstatic at going up to see just what a foul up that was but, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems we had "done enough" or "met a target". We have been competitive with Newcastle in 90 minutes of football too. Rafa is (was?) a pragmatic manager with seemingly little support from above. We should be much more competitive comparatively over two seasons.

Evidence?

Hughton was already involved in discussions about next season and potential transfer targets.

It's not a court of law, it's a forum where people give opinions. You have no evidence either unless you tapped Bloom's phone. The whole point was that the evidence for Bloom having had enough was out on the pitch and in the fact he sacked CH. The evidence for not wanting to change how things were done were in a quote from CH himself in the article in the OP

 

[BLOCK F]

Since you mentioned it, I have completely moved on from CH, but I don't imagine Brexit will ever happen (and don't want it to) so I feel a little besmirched to have my views on CH and Brexit so horribly conflated in this way. A little besmirched.

Besmirched.
What a wonderful word; I shall try and work it into my life on this merry morn!

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

So, for an improvement this season, the minimum we can expect is, finishing above 17th, an FA cup semi final and the double over Palace.

No pressure then, Potter.

Potter is under big pressure and if he does not cut the mustard by Christmas he will be off. The pay off to a manager these days is not that significant with all the money sloshing around. Potter has no experience and is unproven at this level.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

I think he had lost the team with his tactics and that being the case there was only going to be one conclusion, which was the right one as far as I am concerened.
It could be a shelf life thing, but we needed to change the soulless game we had adopted.
He did well to keep us up, though the method of doing this did cost him.
Right or wrong only time will tell.

Yes I go along with 'shelf life'. CH was a good manager and is a good manager, however after a while (and 4.5 years is a long while at a club) things can go stale and new management can freshen things up. Of course also the directors and fans gain a sense of entitlement and taking things for granted too. GP creates new interest and we will see how he does. My guess is that the football will be more entertaining (at least to start until confidence drops) and the results less so !!!

 

[NooBHA]

So, for an improvement this season, the minimum we can expect is, finishing above 17th, an FA cup semi final and the double over Palace.

No pressure then, Potter.

Indeed correct - Not only that. The true pressure now lies in the type of football expected. There is an expectation of pressing and attacking football. If it comes and it succeeds that will be superb to watch but if it doesn't take off instantly. You wonder will there be a ''mandate'' to change that philosophy. - The answer is possibly not and that could become a problem because if something doesn't work, there has no be an option to revert to something else.

If certain players can't adapt to a certain style then it is difficult to make wholescale changes to a squad ''midflight'' so to speak.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If certain players can't adapt to a certain style then it is difficult to make wholescale changes to a squad ''midflight'' so to speak.

One consistent thread through all I've read on Potter is that he is able to adapt his tactics and setup to the players he has at his disposal. He doesn't sound wedded to any one particular style, he's not afraid to try things, and can often do it several times during a game. I feel that some players people seem to be writing off as unable to play to Potter's style, maybe surprised, especially if Potter's style adapts to them.