Goldstone secret history

[Lord Bracknell]

Sorry if this is familiar territory for some, but the sequence of events is important.

I'm sorry to ask this, triptolemus, but why is this important?

It's all very interesting, as history. And, like Desert Orchid, I've got a collection of some of the documents from that time. But I can't see the relevance of any of this to the Albion's current position.

Just one thing sticks in my mind, though. I seem to recall that, in the first few days of the Falmer Public Inquiry, the opponents of the stadium plans were asking one or two questions about 1992/93, with a view to undermining the current application.

Dick Knight said - quite sensibly - that he couldn't answer those questions from the Club's perspective, because he had nothing to do with the management of the Albion at that time.

The Public Inquiry resumes next week. You have suddenly appeared on North Stand Chat today - and are asking questions about 1992/93.

You're not doing this with a view to raising these matters at the Inquiry, are you?

If so, I'm afraid you've heard the last word from me on the subject.

 

[NMH]

Conjecture here, but I'd imagine that planning permissions and actual improvements and maintenances are a tax write-off - and that every business has to have a balance of such for their accountants to work with.


As for Falmer, this would have to be a great asset to Brighton when it comes to finances and spin-off income for the City and it's coffers - especially when Britain hosts a big event like Olympics, Football tournaments (remember there is now a burgeoning Women's World Cup Event that adds to the sports calendar), concerts, symposiums, conventions, automobile shows, sponsored events, filming of games, advertising, and the list goes on because that's all off the top of my head at the moment and there must be many more sources of interest inherent with the whole concept.

Why is the whole City, County and council not 300% gung-ho mental for getting this through and built for the future of a greater Brighton ??

 

[SiNZ]

I would guess that we are losing money at the moment - mainly because of the occupancy costs of Withdean. But the prospects look good for Falmer and this keeps the long-term financial prospects rosy.

If Falmer is turned down, we are in deep doo doo.

Losing money and being in the red are very different things. Losing money is P&L, red/black status is balance sheet.

I would imagine we are in the black as regards debt. Our funding comes through equity AFAIK. Or long term debt at the most. Once Falmer gets built, we will be in the red - but with a large asset to offset it, so our gearing will be fine.

 

[SiNZ]

Conjecture here, but I'd imagine that planning permissions and actual improvements and maintenances are a tax write-off -

I'm out of date, having been out of the country since June 1997, but:
- Planning permissions
Not sure to be honest. I see no reason why they cannot be capitalised once permission is gained or if it is expected. That would mean that until the Stadium is built, no corporation tax or capital allowance credits. I'm guessing on this one as I am out of date and have not done any tax work for even longer than I've been out of the UK.

- Actual improvements
Would be capitalised to the balance sheet as increasing the value of the fixed asset and therefore qualify for capital allowances.

- Maintenance
Non-capitalisable, unless considered an improvement to above original condition or extending the initial useful life of the asset. Would therefore be charged to the P&L and reduce the corporation tax payable on taxable profits.

Other factors:
- I would imagine that over the preceeding years we have built up a balance of losses. These can generate tax credits that can be carried back to gain refunds on tax paid for a set number of preceding years. We are probably in a position where we have built up a tax credit and await some profits to consume the credit. I.e. in the short term no tax credits from anything. This is pure guesswork as regards our genuine situation.

- Sale of the Goldstone may have generated a Capital Gains tax bill.

- The goverment often has tax incentives in place for the construction of buildings. I have no idea what schemes the current government has running and whether Falmer would qualify. Such schemes generally focus on "Industrial Buildings" being setup for the purpose of promoting manufacturing etc.

Now that you're all asleep with all this accounting talk, I'll stop!

 

[triptolemus]

Originally posted by Lord Bracknell
I'm sorry to ask this, triptolemus, but why is this important?

It's all very interesting, as history. And, like Desert Orchid, I've got a collection of some of the documents from that time. But I can't see the relevance of any of this to the Albion's current position.

Just one thing sticks in my mind, though. I seem to recall that, in the first few days of the Falmer Public Inquiry, the opponents of the stadium plans were asking one or two questions about 1992/93, with a view to undermining the current application.

Nothing could be further from my mind, Lord Bracknell. I'm not involved in the stadium bid, which of course I support. The reason why the above is important in the present situation is that skeletons in the cupboard have a habit of rattling again, maybe not in Brighton, but elsewhere. The 'phantom' planning application (that turned into a real one) has never been fully explained, unless it was just a political cock-up, which personally I doubt. What happened at the Goldstone is very likely to happen elsewhere in the current carpetbagging climate, and it would be useful to other clubs facing the same kind of asset-stripping to know what tactics businessmen employ to prise valuable real estate away from communities and fans. They manipulate local politicians to help them succeed. The idea that one should meekly be silent about these things, even if they are a long way back in the past, is the thin end of the wedge. It's the argument the corrupt use to cover their tracks, (we've heard it used recently concerning Iraq and WMD) 'let's move on and concentrate on rebuilding the present etc'. No, let's stop and look at what happened in detail, in case we or others allow that to happen again. And, as we have seen in the last few days, the huge 'mistake' that was made over the planning application in 1993 is still impacting on the club.

 

[Brovion]

Correct Dessie. This is all a bit like analyisng the Munich Agreement between Hitler and Chamberlain and trying to draw conclusions about the current EC plans for expansion etc. All the players on both sides have moved on and we the fans are not nearly so naive as we were then.

 

[perseus]

I go for the cock-up theory myself, over the conspiracy theory, i.e Bellotti and Archer were guilty of gross incompetence and arrogance rather than a sinsister plot.

I am not sure about Shoreham harbour though. I think the asset stripping plan for Shoreham harbour is more like a planning consultancy scam just rip off a bit of cream on the top.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

To be fair to Archer and Belloti, they always ' claimed ' they were the ' only ' people capable of providing a new ground for BHA when DK and MP were trying to wrench control of the club away from them.

However, we all know now that Belloti's idea of a planning application is little more than a map with a few coloured in areas, that Archers idea of investment in a company revolves around how much money he can personally make out of it, and that their priorities were not to build a new ground, but to balance the books.

Now none of this was known back in 1993. In fact, at that time, Archer and Belloti appeared as credible as Robert Maxwell did with the Daily Mirror Pension funds, and look what a crook he was found out to be.

 

[perseus]

I would nice to have a map (available on the Internet) of the Falmer Application with a few coloured in bits and where the parking is etc.

 

[tedebear]

Now this is all very interesting folks - thanks for the details...

I had no idea that it was actually suggested that BHA not move from the Goldstone until they had another stadium - do I read that right? and also that Archer and Belloti entered the frey after the planning application had been granted??

I've got so many different versions from so many people that its hard to know exactly what went on....

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Greg Stanley was certainly on the board at the time Lloyd was Managing Director and preparing planning permission for the Goldstone ( I think Brian Bedson was Chairman at the time ), I don't recall Bill Archer coming along until later ( but he was Stanleys' business partner in Focus DIY so was probably advised by Stanley that BHAFC was a good ' business opportunity '.

David Belloti was still a Lib-Dem councillor in Eastbourne - I have no idea at all how Archer thought he was an ideal Chief Executive, but if he was only after a locally based spin doctor, it all makes sense now.

Ah, the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Lady Bracknell]

I'm sure your intentions are very sound, triptolemus - but it's an intriguing name. Being that the original Greek deity was mainly in charge of agriculture

Have you got farming interests? Or perhaps just seed sowing?

 

[triptolemus]

Hop-farming, long ago, roz, but that was in another county and besides the farm is dead. But I've lived in Brighton thirty summers or more, and have reaped what I've sown.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Whatever the ins and outs of granting outline planning permission ( and it's true that the idea was to raise the value of the Goldstone Ground so that the club could use the Ground as security for either a further loan ( Stadium development ), or as I suspect, to price the Goldstone high enough to finance the provision of land purchase and development of a new stadium ) it is undeniable that Archer and Belloti put paid to those plans by :

a) Selling the Goldstone for a fraction of its' true value ( certainly much less than the market value as events subsequently proved ).

b) Attempted to pocket the profit ( the change of the clubs articles of association ).

c) Encourage a ground share with Portsmouth rather than have a credible plan to build a new stadium.

The agenda to find a better venue than the Goldstone for the club has been the agenda of every ( honest ) Chairman since I have been supporting BHA. It's just that now it's no longer a desire, it is a fundamental necessity.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Now this is all very interesting folks - thanks for the details...

I had no idea that it was actually suggested that BHA not move from the Goldstone until they had another stadium - do I read that right? and also that Archer and Belloti entered the frey after the planning application had been granted??

I've got so many different versions from so many people that its hard to know exactly what went on....

Certainly in 1992, the Club's position was that they would not consider selling the ground to any developers prior to securing a new site. At that time, they also accepted that Toads Hole was not a suitable alternative to the Goldstone - having reached this conclusion after discussions with the County Council's planning department.

Archer and Bellotti took a different view. My theory is that Archer appointed Bellotti as Chief Executive because he believed that having a County Councillor on board would help him swing the County Council round to supporting Toads Hole. This only goes to show how stupid the two of them are. Council planning officers value their independence enormously - and there is no way that a single Councillor (representing a ward in Eastbourne) is in a position to get planning officers to change a professional opinion - PARTICULARLY if that Councillor has an obvious vested interest.

But the two of them blundered on - and a "sort of" planning application for Toads Hole was submitted by Bellotti, for a stadium with a lot of associated commercial development and no accompanying environmental or traffic impact statements (which he knew were required). And on the back of that pathetic excuse for a planning application, they went ahead and sold the Goldstone Ground.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Greg Stanley was certainly on the board at the time Lloyd was Managing Director and preparing planning permission for the Goldstone ( I think Brian Bedson was Chairman at the time ), I don't recall Bill Archer coming along until later ( but he was Stanleys' business partner in Focus DIY so was probably advised by Stanley that BHAFC was a good ' business opportunity '.

David Belloti was still a Lib-Dem councillor in Eastbourne - I have no idea at all how Archer thought he was an ideal Chief Executive, but if he was only after a locally based spin doctor, it all makes sense now.

Ah, the benefit of hindsight.

The Albion letter paper in December 1992 had the following text at the bottom:-

Directors:
Chairman: G A Stanley
Vice Chairman: D Sullivan
W A Archer, R A Bloom, J L Campbell, B E Clarke
B D Lloyd (Managing Director)
Chief Executive: R A Pavey

Bryan Bedson had gone by 1989

 

[sherriffbart]

R A Bloom....Is that the Bloom on our board, or is that his son?

Ron Pavey...thoroughly nice bloke

 

[The Large One]

Ray Bloom - same feller.

Slightly off-topic, but still related, I do know that the groundshare with Portsmouth was the done deal before the news about the Goldstone sell-off became public knowledge. In fact, Portsmouth were furious that Albion backed out of it, and it was NOT to do with the fact that the fans protested.

In actuality, Archer (who did not directly set up the deal) just did not know where geographically Portsmouth was (is), and assumed it was too far away. Although one might argue that 50 miles is too far away, he thought it was much further - closer to the West Country in fact. Hence the reason, he eventually went for Gillingham. How's that for logic?

 

[bromleygull]

here's another secret. my sister is best friends with jo belloti (his wife) went to my niece and nephews christening a few years back and they were there. didn't sit anywhere near them though.

 

[tedebear]

so Archer appointed Bellotti in order to attempt some kind of planning permission grant which had a snowflakes hope in hell.... they sold the goldstone and did what with the proceeds??

where does DK appear in this story??

sorry to ask so many questions but this interests me....