GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[seagullmouse]

Carry on living with your eyes closed

Who are you to tell me my faith is wrong?!

 

[djm21]

Who are you to tell me my faith is wrong?!

You obviously don't have faith, that's my point.

 

[seagullmouse]

I do now have faith and it is down to the incredibly convincing arguments that those of faith have put forward on here, its amazing. Thanks guys

 

[HovaGirl]

A philosophical debate would be more along the lines of "do we, in the 21st century, need the concept of higher beings?"

That wasn't the question. It was about god, and looking at the options available in the poll it's about the judeo-christian god.

The thread question assumes there is a God - GOD: How much do you believe in him?
And the poll header question assumes there is a God - How much do you believe in GOD?
This assumes a mono-theistic God, but not specifically Judeo-Christian.

However, the poll questions themselves give a variety of answers to choose from, including for pollsters to declare they don't believe in God at all.

Which, of course, leads directly to the philosophical question: What or who is God and does he exist? From which you get a variety of philosophical replies as to the nature of God.

 

[Acker79]

You may have faith in Rihanna being brilliant in her concert, or that Murray will win the US Open (one day), or that Albion will make the premier league. There is no evidence that any of these things WILL happen, but many of their fans have faith in their idol to deliver. I was simply using your possible faith in the Albion getting into the Premier League as an example of having faith in something. (Faith doesn't only have to be about religion.) I'm sorry you didn't get my point or felt that it was irrelevant to you.

I don't believe those are actual examples of faith. For me, faith has nothing to do with whether Rihanna will have a good concert or Murray win he US Open or Brighton get to the Premier League. They are about optimism and hope. They are about knowing what is possible (Rihanna will have developed a reputation for good concerts, or shown an ability to perform well on TV, Andy Murray has shown he can beat Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, we have seen teams like Blackpool and Swansea make it to the premier league, we've seen the quality we produce and the know the quality it takes to make the step up) and hoping that what is known to be possible is attained.

 

[seagullmouse]

I started this thread being an atheist, but the logic and argument put forward by those with faith has been so convincing that I have now decided that I firmly believe in god and jesus.... and the tooth fairy. The last of which is particularly interesting to me and I have decided to devote my life to the tooth fairy's teachings.

So please join me in the Tooth Fairy's prayer

Our teeth who art in mouth
Hallowed be thy gums
Give us this day our daily brushing
...etc etc

Its just a faith guys so I won't offer you any logical argument I will just expect you to join me.

Thank you wise faithful people for showing me the path of the tooth and away from logic and reason.

Remember our TOOTH FAIRY is an AWESOME TOOTH FAIRY

I need some help finishing this guys... do it for the glory of the tooth fairy.

Our teeth who art in mouth
Hallowed be thy gums
Give us this day our daily brushing

 

[NMH]

I need some help finishing this guys... do it for the glory of the tooth fairy.

Our teeth who art in mouth
Hallowed be thy gums
Give us this day our daily brushing

You seem to be strangely frustrated with it all

Look, nobody is asking or trying to get YOU to believe or disbelieve anything! There are opinions on why some people do believe, and how - and there are those who reason as to why they don't believe.
I don't see anyone asking you to lean to or from either.
Your mocking of either, is just looking plain silly mate.

 

[HovaGirl]

I don't believe those are actual examples of faith. For me, faith has nothing to do with whether Rihanna will have a good concert or Murray win he US Open or Brighton get to the Premier League. They are about optimism and hope. They are about knowing what is possible (Rihanna will have developed a reputation for good concerts, or shown an ability to perform well on TV, Andy Murray has shown he can beat Nadal, Federer and Djokovic, we have seen teams like Blackpool and Swansea make it to the premier league, we've seen the quality we produce and the know the quality it takes to make the step up) and hoping that what is known to be possible is attained.

That's my point, that faith gives hope and optimism to some people. I gave those examples precisely because they are possible (but not definite), and because their fans/followers/faithful hope it will be so.

 

[Acker79]

That's my point, that faith gives hope and optimism to some people. I gave those examples precisely because they are possible (but not definite), and because their fans/followers/faithful hope it will be so.

But their hope is based on actual evidence, on measured potential, not on hope that your faith is well founded.

 

[HovaGirl]

But their hope is based on actual evidence, on measured potential, not on hope that your faith is well founded.

I know, and that's the difference. But for some people (not me, necessarily) religious faith is important, because it gives them hope.

 

[beorhthelm]

None of which has any relevance to answering the question does "a god" exist.

so are you talking about "a god" amongst many, or "God" the singular Judeo-Christian-Islamic context? seems you get yourself confused, rather like DerbyGull, make up you mind what you believe in.

I meant "never mind the science" because I was being philosophical, not scientific. This whole debate is philosophical but very few seem to realise that.

some like to use the science because creationist (the most militant of the religious believers) refute what we know from empirical study. personally, its a bit more fun as it involves some sort of debate. the philosophical debate for the Judeo-Christian-Islamic "God", all powerfull, all knowing, benevolent, supreme deity was over before latter two religions even existed. there isnt even a debate to be had philosophically, unless you choose to accept the Abrahamic "God" as a bit of bastard. "he" chose to punish woman for with painfull child birth because she fell for a trap he set, knowing she would; he allows children to suffer; he allows, even *creates* famine, disease, war to create misery, even amongst his own believers.

 

[piersa]

I started this thread being an atheist, but the logic and argument put forward by those with faith has been so convincing that I have now decided that I firmly believe in god and jesus.... and the tooth fairy. The last of which is particularly interesting to me and I have decided to devote my life to the tooth fairy's teachings.

So please join me in the Tooth Fairy's prayer

Our teeth who art in mouth
Hallowed be thy gums
Give us this day our daily brushing
...etc etc

Its just a faith guys so I won't offer you any logical argument I will just expect you to join me.

Thank you wise faithful people for showing me the path of the tooth and away from logic and reason.

Remember our TOOTH FAIRY is an AWESOME TOOTH FAIRY

very good and creative to boot. It is however not as creative as the holy scriptures. I think you need to be stoned to death for breathing and having a brain that is deductive.

 

[birthofanorange]

I do not worship a god, nor do I believe in the bible and the only time I have spent in a church is at a wedding. I could not be described as religious in any way, shape or form. However, to discount the possibility of some kind of creative input because of the lack of scientific evidence strikes me as ludicrous. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there IS such a thing, only that it's possible, and that there may well come a time when it is possible to describe god (in whatever form it takes) in scientific terms that are acceptable.

I hope that is the case - would certainly make life as we know it a little different, just as finding life on other planets would (or should) change the way we view ourselves.

I also feel sure that if this god/creator/whatever does exist, it will have no interest whatsoever in our little world, let alone us as individuals, so the concepts of heaven/hell etc. do not concern me one iota.

I'm sure that most of us do (or have done) the lottery. The chances of winning are so ridiculously small, yet we blindly buy a ticket in the hope - against huge odds, logic and probability - that we will win the jackpot. Funny how we pick and choose when to have belief in what science can teach us.

 

[seagullmouse]

very good and creative to boot. It is however not as creative as the holy scriptures. I think you need to be stoned to death for breathing and having a brain that is deductive.

I have worked it out over a beer tonight, here goes

Our fairy, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy wings,
Thy Colgate come,
Thy cleanse my gums,
In morning as it is in evening,
Give me my due for what's in my head,
And give me it in ten-pieces,
As I will save it to go to the dentist,
And lead me not into sweet shops,
and deliver me from the drill,
for thine is the wisdom, the incisor and the molar, forever and ever.
Amen

 

[beorhthelm]

...However, to discount the possibility of some kind of creative input because of the lack of scientific evidence strikes me as ludicrous. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there IS such a thing, only that it's possible, and that there may well come a time when it is possible to describe god (in whatever form it takes) in scientific terms that are acceptable.

this is why some would say "there is *probably* no god", so as to avoid the logical trap of making an assertion they cannot actually prove.

I also feel sure that if this god/creator/whatever does exist, it will have no interest whatsoever in our little world, let alone us as individuals, so the concepts of heaven/hell etc. do not concern me one iota.

and in the case of such a deity, whats the point of believing in such an entity, let alone praying and praising it. we sould really just focus on getting on with living a simple and good life. theres too much hate from too many of the religious believers.

 

[birthofanorange]

this is why some would say "there is *probably* no god", so as to avoid the logical trap of making an assertion they cannot actually prove.



and in the case of such a deity, whats the point of believing in such an entity, let alone praying and praising it. we sould really just focus on getting on with living a simple and good life. theres too much hate from too many of the religious believers.

The point? Because it would be an interesting thing to discover. I'm with you on the praying /praising, a waste of time, imo but good luck to those that feel the need.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

I lost my best friend when I was 16 and have since had a lot of 'trouble' with depression.

Taking into account how relatively 'cushty' I have it, compared to the injustices going on in the wider world, I have no doubt whatsoever that there is no god, and the less time spent worshipping 'Him' can be used to actually help someone.

I agree with a lot of the Bible's ideals, but who wouldn't? If I could paraphrase 774,746 words, the message I get is 'DON'T BE A DICKHEAD'. I live life as I'd want to be treated, and that's how I want to be treated. You shouldn't need a book to tell you to do that, it *should* be human nature.

 

[birthofanorange]

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that, JATGH and I can understand your viewpoint. What I am struggling with is why there seems to be a problem separating 'religion' from a concept that a god/deity MAY, just may exist.

To me, they do not need to go hand in hand at all.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

Well, as a (partially) educated person, I have no evidence at all to suggest that God does or does not exist, therefore I respect other peoples believes with utmost importance. In fact, I would go as far as to say I am jealous of those people who follow a religion, as it must be very rewarding. However, I am a very pessamistic person at heart and always have been, and under my circumstances I'm afraid I can't accept anything other than a Darwinian evolution.

On that note, I know many Christians who I am very good friends with, so I don't know why these beliefs should separate people, it's just a difference of opinion in my book, much like Marmite.

 

[shellsuit]

As I've said many a time, I'm still looking for definitive proof.

Many things lead me to believe there's a greater power in play throughout the cosmos.

If religious people are supposed to show proof that God exists then anyone who says God is man made should fall under the same category surely?

i really dont get you at all......you claim to be still looking for definitive proof of god.

how on earth can you say that and not contradict your Catholic faith.......that just reeks of hypocrisy.especially when you are lecturing people on here, are you so surprised so many people argue against you when you dont even have a clue what you are yourself........either stick to being a catholic and keep telling us all what to believe or tell it as it is and be an agnostic and keep telling us what to believe......either way i for one will not be able to take anything you say seriously