GOD: How much do you believe in him?

[Mr Burns]

Why do you say that? Did you read it carefully?

Did you? Judging comments he was spuing last night, its clear what he means.

If those children die, they will be reborn into a different life. So he IS saying they will be lucky to die. He is not saying he would rather they were born into better surroundings. Rather that if they are lucky enough die in this life, jesus/god/whoever will grant them rebirth into another life.

 

[HovaGirl]

Yes, thats correct. Because I don't agree with you, I lack intelligence.

I persoanlly wouldn't consider throwing a stone at someone as science. So I suppose our understanding of science differs somewhat.

It's not because we disagree, but that you don't seem to understand what some people are saying. You put your own interpretation on their words. Perhaps they (we) aren't explaining ourselves very well, but you do seem to take things too literally.

 

[DerbyGull]

Jesus wasn't God. He was human, but the son of God.

God in human form. An extension of god.

 

[Mr Burns]

How many times now have you called me a (unt and wanker now??

Like i said you're angry and have issues.

Probably one more time you've called me angry...[unt.

And I have issues, coming from you

 

[DTES]

God in human form. An extension of god.

Hang on, if he was God, why did he sacrifice himself for our sins? Why didn't he just say "You know what? I've decided to forgive you all. There you go, you're all forgiven. And I can do that, because I am God."

 

[One Love]

Strange attitude.

Please explain why you think it is strange.

 

[DerbyGull]

Did Jesus tell you that. Tut. Wrong again.

In fact pretty much everyone on here has been amicable even though we see life differently. But YOU are an angry man with a big chip on your shoulder (forced to eat too much cabbage as a kid??), seriously get help!

 

[One Love]

Hang on, if he was God, why did he sacrifice himself for our sins? Why didn't he just say "You know what? I've decided to forgive you all. There you go, you're all forgiven. And I can do that, because I am God."

Errm , that's what he did, didn't he?

 

[Mr Burns]

In fact pretty much everyone on here has been amicable even though we see life differently. But YOU are an angry man with a big chip on your shoulder (forced to eat too much cabbage as a kid??), seriously get help!

Okay sweatheart. You think I angry, I think your a nasty little piece of shit, with evil views.

I also KNOW, only one of us is correct, and I'm not an angry person, despite was Jebus tells you.

You will notice I have been amicable with everyone else, even have a fair bit of banter along the way, but with someone with a sick views as yours, then I cannot be amicable with someone who has these sick views, and refuses to explain them, even though a number of people have been offended by them.

Now, run along and read the rest of your good book, because you are making yourself look a twat, with the amount of things statements you are getting incorrect, even in regilous peoples eyes.

Maybe when you finish your book, you will understand it a bit better, and then copme back and join in, because at the moment, you are miles off track sunshine.

 

[DTES]

Errm , that's what he did, didn't he?

He "died for our sins". Why did his forgiveness have to have anything to do with his death?

 

[DerbyGull]

Hang on, if he was God, why did he sacrifice himself for our sins? Why didn't he just say "You know what? I've decided to forgive you all. There you go, you're all forgiven. And I can do that, because I am God."

DTES, I wish i knew enough to answer you. The old testament is full of people sacrificing things to god, apparently he needs a sacrifice in order to forgive?!

 

[HovaGirl]

No, but then sin it what the bible tells you it is.

Having a wank is considered a sin in a lot of regilious eyes, so every bloke on this planet probably sinned 5 times a day in their teens.

But then non bleivers aren't going to be afriad of having a wank (unless their mum walks in on them) so what a sin is to some, is no issue to others.

I've never killed anyone, robbed anyone, I have no contact with the police in my life, maybe broke the odd spped limit, so in my eyes I haven't sinned.

Hand me the stone then! Am I using yoiu as a target. I'd much rather it be DerbyGull, but you'll do.

But then of course I will have sinned as soon as I lob it at you, as I'd be breaking the law.

oh, its all so confusing isn't it

OK, so you are interpreting sin according to the Bible. But to commit a sin is simply to do something wrong - something illegal or something which hurts people: telling a lie; pinching a biscuit without asking Mum; taking a short-cut through someone's garden; speeding, even!; pinching a ream of printer paper from work; calling your mother's friend an ugly cow to her face; telling your girlfriend she's a slag; biffing your best mate or his mate; swearing in a public place; pinching goods from Currys during a riot; selling cocaine; setting fire to an old shed on a building site. Or there are much worse sins: killing someone; robbing a bank; setting fire to someone's house, etc.

 

[sten_super]

I'm not religious, and I don't have a problem with people being religious (although I do have an issue with twunts, and sometimes the two do overlap; no more than in normal society IMHO though). To be honest the bit I find weird is the whole church thing (this might well apply to mosques and other places of worship as well - unfortunately I've only ever been to a Church service). People sit there and pray, and then ask that God hears them. Do they think he has nothing better to do? How the hell is he supposed to be able to to listen to millions (billions, if we accept that, if there is a God, everyone's probably preying to the same one) of people at the same time? And, quite frankly, who really thinks he would bother? It's at that time that it seems most clear to me that religion is a human construct- we have this all-powerful person in charge, but despite being responsible for over SIX BILLION people he's still got time to hear me. How self-centred can you get?

Would a true god really demand that people spend 2 hours every Sunday in a cold church thinking about him? Would he really expect ridiculous moral standards from everyone? Would he really go more than 2000 years without at least giving some indication that he's up there?

 

[Steve Foster]

Proof of the Existence of God

In a court of law the strongest proof that something happened or existed is a witness statement. Seeing is believing. You cannot compare something seen to something heard.

Any historical fact is proven by those who witnessed and recorded the event. It follows that the more witnesses to that event, the more bona fide the fact.

Ask anyone who went to Sunday school, or even not, how many plagues there were in Egypt when the Israelites were lead out of bondage to the promised land, by Moses and their answer would be 10. If anyone suggested there were 11 they would immediately be contradicted, not just by the historical detail, as presented in the Torah. We would have remembered if there were 11 plagues, but no there were 10!

In fact, had there been 'Chinese whispers', a distortion of the story over generations, we would have ended up with different versions of the story. All agree, however, that the Jews left Egypt and 49 days later, stood before Mount Sinai and heard the 10 Commandments from God.

This is known, not just because a book (The Torah) tells us so, but simply by tradition - by the fact that generation after generation have transmitted this story and that it is based on the actual experience of an entire nation. It therefore remains an undisputed historical fact.

At Sinai, 600,000 men between the ages of 20 and 60, plus women and children (and men under the age of 20 and over the age of 60) - a total of approximately three million people - heard the Ten Commandments from God himself.

This event recorded in the Torah, is at the same time, a witnessed event of history and therefore an undisputed historical fact. To discredit it is highly unscientific.

 

[One Love]

He "died for our sins". Why did his forgiveness have to have anything to do with his death?

It didn't. Did I say it did?

You said, "Why didn't he just say "You know what? I've decided to forgive you all. There you go, you're all forgiven".

I'm saying he did forgive everyone.

 

[DTES]

DTES, I wish i knew enough to answer you. The old testament is full of people sacrificing things to god, apparently he needs a sacrifice in order to forgive?!

Which would make perfect sense... if Jesus wasn't God. If they are the same person/deity/thing (whichever word fits best here) then the above simply doesn't make any sense.

Which kind of brings us to one of the main problems I have with religion, or the religious. When something doesn't make sense, there's no sense of "Hang on, this doesn't make sense. I need to look into this and work out if maybe it isn't right" - it's just accepted, with a kind of "Oh, that's odd. Well God is mysterious so we'll just put it down to that and move on". Perhaps the fundamental difference between religion and science? When science sees new evidence, it changes its theories accordingly, religion just pretends that evidence isn't there?

Meh, who knows...?

 

[One Love]

DTES, I wish i knew enough to answer you. The old testament is full of people sacrificing things to god, apparently he needs a sacrifice in order to forgive?!

What is this??

 

[HovaGirl]

Do you generally converse as if you know everything or just on these boards? I'm not going to profess to be an expert on who was elderly in the 1800's, but I am sure it was a lot rarer than it is now. in 1900 for example, the no. of over 65's was around 4% of the population, by 2000 it was 12%, it is predicted to be around 17% by 2020. I think you could start a fight in an empty house. It is no wonder you are into politics.

Sorry if I give that impression. I'm a social historian and I've made studies of this stuff. It is true the numbers of elderly is increasing, especially in the next decade when the baby-boomers reach for their pensions. But there have always been elderly people in society.

 

[DTES]

It didn't. Did I say it did? You said, "Why didn't he just say "You know what? I've decided to forgive you all. There you go, you're all forgiven". I'm saying he did forgive everyone.

Did you say it? Maybe not. Is it common Christian teaching that Jesus died for our sins? Yes. Which was my point.

You don't believe the common teaching that he sacrificed himself for us, in order that we may be forgiven?

 

[Giraffe]

I have only just seen bothered to look at this thread as I knew it would deteriate quickly.

Suggest everyone starts being sensible before it is deleted. Fine to have the discussion, but there is no need to abuse each other and call other NSC users names.

Stop it or I or another moderator will delete the thread.