[Football] Getting rid of Rooney was the start of all of this

[drew]

He retired after he had been dropped and realised he wasnt going to be picked any more.

He rejected a recall from Southgate and then announced he was retiring so that doesn't tie in with your comments!

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tires-england-rejects-recall-gareth-southgate

 

[drew]

There was this common idea in the English FA, until the foreign policy stopped working, that a manager has to be highly skilled in and successful in club football. It didn't apply to English candidates (because their weren't any) yet they got it right with Southgate. Lancaster Gate has had an initiative running for a while. A 'team England' ideology. And Southgate was part of it. The youth teams through to the first eleven play the same way and run off the same page. It's a blueprint that has reaped dividend earlier than expected. The FA, for once, deserve much praise. Southgate was never a risk. Look at previously successful international managers elsewhere and their backgrounds.

The principle is sound but let's not get ahead of ourselves. We could get to the World cup final without beating any team in the top 10 (Colombia are 16 and Croatia 20)

 

[Megazone]

Rooney for England never really showed it, just like the rest of them during that England era. There were a fair few top class players in the England team back then including Lampard, Gerrard, Ashley Cole, Rooney and Ferdinand. So why did they constantly underperform? I put it down to not only having JT in the changing room, but having him as captain. He would've been a bully in the changing room no doubt. He's the one who thinks he's more important than you and would've abused his England captaincy.

No way in a million years could England play with any great telepathy whilst they have John Terry in the back of their minds. If anyone here has ever played for a team where there's a negative attitude towards the team spirit, you'll know it does effect your performance in a negative way. You feel less expressive when the team is divided into different social groups i.e. the popular gang. It ruins the team telepathy and might explain why England played with zero imagination with all these quality players on show back then.

This current England lot don't seem to have the super stars and massive ego's of that era, but it seem they're a likeable bunch now. England's current captain, who's a proven world class talent, still comes across very down to earth. You never see him show aggression at the ref or opposition. You never see him showing frustration at his team. Always cool and calm just like his finishing. A good influence.
Kane has all qualities needed to be a good captain and it's showing in this WC. JT had all the qualities to go to jail.

 

[spence]

Rooney for England never really showed it, just like the rest of them during that England era. There were a fair few top class players in the England team back then including Lampard, Gerrard, Ashley Cole, Rooney and Ferdinand. So why did they constantly underperform? I put it down to not only having JT in the changing room, but having him as captain. He would've been a bully in the changing room no doubt. He's the one who thinks he's more important than you and would've abused his England captaincy.

No way in a million years could England play with any great telepathy whilst they have John Terry in the back of their minds. If anyone here has ever played for a team where there's a negative attitude towards the team spirit, you'll know it does effect your performance in a negative way. You feel less expressive when the team is divided into different social groups i.e. the popular gang. It ruins the team telepathy and might explain why England played with zero imagination with all these quality players on show back then.


This current England lot don't seem to have the super stars and massive ego's of that era, but it seem they're a likeable bunch now. England's current captain, who's a proven world class talent, still comes across very down to earth. You never see him show aggression at the ref or opposition. You never see him showing frustration at his team. Always cool and calm just like his finishing. A good influence.
Kane has all qualities needed to be a good captain and it's showing in this WC. JT had all the qualities to go to jail.

119 caps 53 goals is a fantastic return. Nearly 1 goal every two games. If that isn't showing it then god knows what he had to do.Think you are just talking nonsense re Rooney. I hate the bloke but his England record is superb. Granted it tailed off towards the end.
I agree with the other sentiments of your post about under performing other England players and you could say that's bad coaching/management.

 

[OzMike]

Rooney's time has past, just part of a natural progression.
His record shows how well he did, petered out at the end, but decent for the main.
Time for the next generation, as Southgate has identified, a team picked on merit rather than reputation, though there must be a better alternative to Sterling.
He just has no idea what to do once in the penalty area, was a luxury against Sweden but will be a liability against anybody else.

 

[Megazone]

Just bollox.

119 caps 53 goals is a fantastic return. Nearly 1 goal every two games. If that isn't showing it then god knows what he had to do.Think you are just talking nonsense re Rooney. I hate the bloke but his England record is superb. Granted it tailed off towards the end.
I agree with the other sentiments of your post about under performing and you could say that's bad coaching.

Rooney was a quality player, don't get me wrong. When Rooney was playing alongside Ronaldo, I'd say that's the best strike force I've seen in this country. But when it came to the tournaments for England, what did he ever do? How many crucial goals did Rooney score for England? How many goals did he score in the tournaments?

I'm not blaming Rooney for this. It must've been hard for anyone to play to their full ability for England when the team's full off ego's and a nasty, untrustworthy captain for team spirit. There was probably never a great togetherness when they had 3/4 top club captains all playing in the same team either. Looking back, it couldn't have been much fun playing for England. The team was full of Nastiness (Terry), smugness (Ashley Cole) 'know it alls' (Gary Neville) and massive twats (Carragher).

A very good goal scoring record but I do believe England never saw the best of Rooney.

 

[casbom]

Rooney's time has past, just part of a natural progression.
His record shows how well he did, petered out at the end, but decent for the main.
Time for the next generation, as Southgate has identified, a team picked on merit rather than reputation, though there must be a better alternative to Sterling.
He just has no idea what to do once in the penalty area, was a luxury against Sweden but will be a liability against anybody else.

What crap! Do people really don’t get what Sterling brings to the team? His running off the ball as well as when he had it caused the Swedes all sorts of problems! Yes he isn’t a natural striker but he helps create space and chances for others.

 

[Stat Brother]

There was this common idea in the English FA, until the foreign policy stopped working, that a manager has to be highly skilled in and successful in club football. It didn't apply to English candidates (because their weren't any) yet they got it right with Southgate. Lancaster Gate has had an initiative running for a while. A 'team England' ideology. And Southgate was part of it. The youth teams through to the first eleven play the same way and run off the same page. It's a blueprint that has reaped dividend earlier than expected. The FA, for once, deserve much praise. Southgate was never a risk. Look at previously successful international managers elsewhere and their backgrounds.

Were you always of that opinion?

 

[Uncle C]

Rooney never sang the National Anthem.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

119 caps 53 goals is a fantastic return. Nearly 1 goal every two games. If that isn't showing it then god knows what he had to do.Think you are just talking nonsense re Rooney. I hate the bloke but his England record is superb. Granted it tailed off towards the end.
I agree with the other sentiments of your post about under performing other England players and you could say that's bad coaching/management.

11 World Cup final stage matches and just 1 goal is a more relevant statistic.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Never understand why there are a few who get so vitriolic about Rooney. He was part of a squad that failed. No mean feat to score the number of goals he did and will be interested to see if Kane gets close (I suspect he will). He wasn't binned by Southgate, he chose to retire from international football. Suspect a lot of it is down to simple envy (not necessarily with regard to the granny bit though)!

Alan Shearer retired when he was 30 and Rooney when he was 31. Scholes also retired when he was only 30.

Alllardyce made Rooney his captain. Southgate eased him out. He retired because he wasn't wanted. Do you not remember the awful display Rooney gave in Allardyce's one game in charge, seemingly playing in defensive midfield because he was undroppable. Always all about him and only had one decent tournament in 2004.

Allardyce shooting himself in the foot was the most important factor. Then dropping Joe Hart.

Fair point about Hart

Poor thread title from me in retrospect but I stand by the post. Allardyce would have kept the same old same old and the chance to build a squad would have disolved under the weight of its captain.

Rather than try to find the cause look at the positive.

We have a team now with no fear, may be not world class possibly one or two might be but together and that is all down to the manager.

If you look back in time many England teams were caught up in factions usually via cliques formed from different club player factions - Chelsea v Man U etc.

What we have now is a team of players who want to do well together and also want to achieve together - remember #together once before with BHAFC.

I was born before 1966 but had no clue what happened as 2 at the time, in my life time Italia '90 was our best shot but we did not make it.

I am totally relaxed with this England team, if we do it we do it, if we don't so be it but the most important thing is we have a great set up and with this and it will happen given what the England Youth has already generated, maybe sooner than we all believed.

That's kind of what I mean. "Team England" is brilliant but it only works because the super egos aren't around.

 

[Eeyore]

The principle is sound but let's not get ahead of ourselves. We could get to the World cup final without beating any team in the top 10 (Colombia are 16 and Croatia 20)

Nobody's getting ahead of anything.

The point being made is that the FA appointed a manager who bought into what Lancaster Gate wanted and St George's Park was built for.

Whether England went out to Colombia or win the whole thing is irrespective.

 

[Stat Brother]

Nobody's getting ahead of anything.

The point being made is that the FA appointed a manager who bought into what Lancaster Gate wanted and St George's Park was built for.

Whether England went out to Colombia or win the whole thing is irrespective.

As someone else has already asked:-

If that's the case why appoint Allardyce?

You appear to be retrofitting a history onto the current narrative, not the history.

 

[Eeyore]

As someone else has already asked:-

If that's the case why appoint Allardyce?

You appear to be retrofitting a history onto the current narrative, not the history.

The FA wanted the 'best available'. But, in Southgate's case, finally asked a simple question: Why have a system in place for a coach to come through the ranks then distrust that system?

My greater point I made previously, and long ago. The best international coach isn't one with all the honours, they just need to be part of a system of development and a person that holds a lot of respect.

The FA kept going for instant glory- it's funny, I know.

The most important signal from St George's Park is not England's progress here, a fortunate route the last four proves little in real terms, but the success of the younger age groups.

 

[John Byrnes Mullet]

Rooney was awful for England.

 

[boik]

Blimey, even when things are going well some people still need to find a scapegoat!

 

[herecomesaregular]

Terry and Rooney (snarling, tough nuts) represent a certain type of Englishman (the type who helped us win World Wars). Kane and Southgate (proper English gent, smart and steely) represent another Englishman (the type who again helped us win World Wars).

 

[BUTTERBALL]

Can't blame Rooney per se. There were too many 'big time Charlies' in England teams of previous years who did not live up to their club reputations on the international scene and didn't have the hunger or desire. Southgate has created something very special, the hunger has returned to the England team and the players are completely together as a unit and seem to be enjoying every second of it.

 

[happypig]

Not just Rooney, there were others (Terry/Hart/Gerrard spring to mind) who seemed, to me, to have the attitude that they were entitled to be in the England team because of thier success at club level.

 

[drew]

The FA wanted the 'best available'. But, in Southgate's case, finally asked a simple question: Why have a system in place for a coach to come through the ranks then distrust that system?

My greater point I made previously, and long ago. The best international coach isn't one with all the honours, they just need to be part of a system of development and a person that holds a lot of respect.

The FA kept going for instant glory- it's funny, I know.

The most important signal from St George's Park is not England's progress here, a fortunate route the last four proves little in real terms, but the success of the younger age groups.

Allardyce was always a mistake and Southgate was a bought in due to his availability. He did reasonably well and took his chance and got the gig. However, to try and paint it as some sort of grand FA plan is, as others have said, rewriting history. When Allardyce left, who else could the FA give the job to on a temporary basis? There is a history of temporary managers that have come from within but in most cases they haven't been given the job permanently. Taylor, Wilkinson and Pearce. The same happens at club level, manager goes and the assistant or someone in the club takes over temporarily.

Now, it maybe that a production line is now in place but if it is then our next manager is due to be Aidy Boothroyd!