Gerrard & Carragher Showing Support For That Bloke In Prison

[Jake Manthorpe]

makes me sick

Your Avatar might aswell be Ian Huntley..



....COCK

 

[sten_super]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7788070.stm

A few of you on here seem to know all the facts and will presumably expect Jack Straw to ratify the Bulgarian Court's judgement.

Justice must be done for the victim, but the scumbag who did it to him should be the one doing the time. That might be Shields but it looks as though there is a fair chance it wasnt.

How you can compare this with the Norris/McCormick situation is beyond me. I guess to some everything is just black and white!

How you can completely fail to see the parallels is beyond me.

Norris makes gesture in support of his friend, who has been jailed for killing two children.
Gerrard & co wear shirts in support of a Liverpool fan, who has been jailed for attempting to kill someone.

Your argument seems to be that because it is the perceived opinion that he didn't do it, whereas McCormick did, one is okay and the other isn't. That, to me, is patently nonsense. Football matches should not be used as platforms for political messages. The truth is Liverpool probably got away with it because they are a Premiership side. And that is sickening.

 

[Dave1232]

Just beacuse Shields has been found guilty it does not mean he is

Im sorry but he was foung guity by the Bulgarian Law system

These are the facts. A few nights after Liverpool’s Champions League win in Istanbul a waiter was attacked in Varna and police went to a nearby hotel to arrest the culprit. He wasn’t there, so they tried the adjacent room where 18-year-old Shields was sleeping.

They made him put on a white T-shirt (same colour as the attacker’s) and drove him to the crime scene where witnesses viewed him.

At the police station he was handcuffed to a radiator for 16 hours, while witnesses walked past to an ID parade. A parade made up of Shields and three swarthy Bulgarians.

There was no DNA or forensic proof, four witnesses swore he was asleep, the hotel concierge said he saw Shields go to his room, and another man, Graham Sankey, signed a confession (which his solicitors made him retract).

ITV’s Tonight show employed a retired senior UK detective to re-examine the case who said he was “appalled” at the conviction. Fair Trials Abroad called it a blatant miscarriage of justice.

Get Your Facts Right
If you think he is gulity why are the British Governmet trying to get him his deserved freedom?

 

[chimneys]

Just beacuse Shields has been found guilty it does not mean he is

Im sorry but he was foung guity by the Bulgarian Law system

These are the facts. A few nights after Liverpool’s Champions League win in Istanbul a waiter was attacked in Varna and police went to a nearby hotel to arrest the culprit. He wasn’t there, so they tried the adjacent room where 18-year-old Shields was sleeping.

They made him put on a white T-shirt (same colour as the attacker’s) and drove him to the crime scene where witnesses viewed him.

At the police station he was handcuffed to a radiator for 16 hours, while witnesses walked past to an ID parade. A parade made up of Shields and three swarthy Bulgarians.

There was no DNA or forensic proof, four witnesses swore he was asleep, the hotel concierge said he saw Shields go to his room, and another man, Graham Sankey, signed a confession (which his solicitors made him retract).

ITV’s Tonight show employed a retired senior UK detective to re-examine the case who said he was “appalled” at the conviction. Fair Trials Abroad called it a blatant miscarriage of justice.

Get Your Facts Right
If you think he is gulity why are the British Governmet trying to get him his deserved freedom?

Sten-Super- If I had a similar experience watching Brighton in Europe as Dave outlines above I would hope the club would be on my side and would be doing all it could to get me a "fair" trial including publicising my plight.

It is your and others like your stance that I cant fathom. I guess you would be happy to sit there and rot rather than expect your club you were out there to support, do all it can to get your case heard.

What Gerrard and Norris did were light years apart.

 

[The Spanish]

Football matches should not be used as platforms for political messages. .

Does that include Kick It Out?

 

[DJ Leon]

Just beacuse Shields has been found guilty it does not mean he is

Im sorry but he was foung guity by the Bulgarian Law system

These are the facts. A few nights after Liverpool’s Champions League win in Istanbul a waiter was attacked in Varna and police went to a nearby hotel to arrest the culprit. He wasn’t there, so they tried the adjacent room where 18-year-old Shields was sleeping.

They made him put on a white T-shirt (same colour as the attacker’s) and drove him to the crime scene where witnesses viewed him.

At the police station he was handcuffed to a radiator for 16 hours, while witnesses walked past to an ID parade. A parade made up of Shields and three swarthy Bulgarians.

There was no DNA or forensic proof, four witnesses swore he was asleep, the hotel concierge said he saw Shields go to his room, and another man, Graham Sankey, signed a confession (which his solicitors made him retract).

ITV’s Tonight show employed a retired senior UK detective to re-examine the case who said he was “appalled” at the conviction. Fair Trials Abroad called it a blatant miscarriage of justice.

Get Your Facts Right
If you think he is gulity why are the British Governmet trying to get him his deserved freedom?

Personally, I'm not arguing about his innocence, just that football clubs shouldn't be campaigning for those convicted of crimes. If you think that they should be able to do so if they believe the party to be innocent then that's fine, but you surely have to recognise that's a nonsense in terms of an enforcable law?

 

[Dave1232]

"How you can completely fail to see the parallels is beyond me.

Norris makes gesture in support of his friend, who has been jailed for killing two children.
Gerrard & co wear shirts in support of a Liverpool fan, who has been jailed for attempting to kill someone.

Your argument seems to be that because it is the perceived opinion that he didn't do it, whereas McCormick did, one is okay and the other isn't. That, to me, is patently nonsense. Football matches should not be used as platforms for political messages. The truth is Liverpool probably got away with it because they are a Premiership side. And that is sickening."

You point out 'Your argument seems to be that because it is the perceived opinion that he didn't do it, whereas McCormick did, one is okay and the other isn't. That, to me, is patently nonsense.' How is that nonsesne?? the Liverpool players are campaing for a man that is about to be proven innocent after 3 years were as Norris tried to support his friend who has been convict by the English Law system to have killed 2 children. It is compltly different for Liverpool to try and support Shields release who as i said is about to be proven innocent by the English Government! and for Norris who was supporting a provern killer. You also say 'one is okay and the other isn't' well yes because supporting a proven killer is a bad thing and supporting a man who is innocent is a good thing as the wrong man was punished!!
But well done mayte you just tried to support McCormick(SCUM) over a about to be proven innocent man

 

[Basil Fawlty]

makes me sick

Why does it make you sick? This man is clearly innocent.....

 

[sten_super]

This is clearly not an argument that I'm going to win, but my concerns are the same as DJ Leon's, so I hope he doesn't mind if I quote him...

Personally, I'm not arguing about his innocence, just that football clubs shouldn't be campaigning for those convicted of crimes. If you think that they should be able to do so if they believe the party to be innocent then that's fine, but you surely have to recognise that's a nonsense in terms of an enforcable law?

At what point does it become acceptable to use a football match to further the cause of a jailed man? When it is (relatively) obvious that the man is innocent? When there is 'reasonable' doubt? When there is any doubt whatsoever?

Where is the FA supposed to draw the line? Is it just in cases where they've been tried abroad by a 'dodgy foreign' legal system?

THAT is why the decision not to punish Liverpool was ridiculous, and a clear case of backing down to a Premiership club.

 

[El Presidente]

Surely anyone is entitled to state their views, political or otherwise. When Robbie Fowler wore his 'Support the Dockers' T Shirt at a match I thought he had a right to do it if it was something he believed in. It's not as if Carra and Stevie Geeeeeeee are promoting paedophilia or rape is it?

Non violent direct action was a cornerstone of the fight against Archer, and that took place at matches. I recall the Doncaster players at the final match at the Goldstone walking around with a banner offering us support, would you have fined them for that gesture?

 

[sten_super]

Surely anyone is entitled to state their views, political or otherwise. When Robbie Fowler wore his 'Support the Dockers' T Shirt at a match I thought he had a right to do it if it was something he believed in. It's not as if Carra and Stevie Geeeeeeee are promoting paedophilia or rape is it?

Non violent direct action was a cornerstone of the fight against Archer, and that took place at matches. I recall the Doncaster players at the final match at the Goldstone walking around with a banner offering us support, would you have fined them for that gesture?

If that's the case why was Norris fined for his handcuff gesture then?

 

[Nemesis]

I was talking about this last night, I cannot understand why they are showing support for a man that attempted to kill someone, whether or not he succeeded is irrelavant. For them to be showing support to someone like this is a disgrace in my opinion and should be punished heavily. As far as I can see, it was the whole Liverpool team wearing the t-shirts, does anybody know whether it was the players themselves or the clubs idea?

Do some research before posting-you never know, you might actually learn what really happened.

Somebody else wondered why a football club would campaign for somebody wrongly convicted? Probably because he was supporting the football club when he was wrongly arrested and they are now supporting him in his fight to be released. Don't condemn Liverpool players and make comparisons with an idiot like Norris who made a public gesture of support for a proven killer-the two incidents are so different. One show of support is for somebody wrongfully jailed for a crime he didn't commit-the other was an idiot showing total disrespect towards the surviving members of a family devastated by a drunk driving killer.

Also, to compare Norris's actions with the Doncaster players' support is ridiculous. Showing support for a kid killer and footballers showing support for another football club aren't remotely comparable.

 

[The Spanish]

not being funny mate but he just went on holiday there at the same time. Was he at the game, that happened a few days before the barman got done?

Just doing some research thats all.

 

[sten_super]

Do some research before posting-you never know, you might actually learn what really happened.

Somebody else wondered why a football club would campaign for somebody wrongly convicted? Probably because he was supporting the football club when he was wrongly arrested and they are now supporting him in his fight to be released. Don't condemn Liverpool players and make comparisons with an idiot like Norris who made a public gesture of support for a proven killer-the two incidents are so different. One show of support is for somebody wrongfully jailed for a crime he didn't commit-the other was an idiot showing total disrespect towards the surviving members of a family devastated by a drunk driving killer.

Also, to compare Norris's actions with the Doncaster players' support is ridiculous. Showing support for a kid killer and footballers showing support for another football club aren't remotely comparable.

I probably should have quoted more carefully... El Pres was saying that he believes that anyone should be entitled to show their views, political or otherwise. I was saying, if that is the case, why was Norris fined?

The problem, as I tried to highlight earlier, with your viewpoint is that it is entirely unenforceable. Either footballers are allowed to support whatever causes they want, or they are not allowed to support any publically.

 

[El Presidente]

I probably should have quoted more carefully... El Pres was saying that he believes that anyone should be entitled to show their views, political or otherwise. I was saying, if that is the case, why was Norris fined?

The problem, as I tried to highlight earlier, with your viewpoint is that it is entirely unenforceable. Either footballers are allowed to support whatever causes they want, or they are not allowed to support any publically.

Norris was fined because of pressure from the curtain twitching moaners who work for and complain to the FA.

I don't agree with what Norris did, but the right to free expression comes at a price. In my view his actions made him look like a twat, and 99% of people will probably share that view. Fining him is an irrelevance.

 

[sten_super]

Norris was fined because of pressure from the curtain twitching moaners who work for and complain to the FA.

I don't agree with what Norris did, but the right to free expression comes at a price. In my view his actions made him look like a twat, and 99% of people will probably share that view. Fining him is an irrelevance.

Why is the fine irrelevant when the whole topic of discussion (at least from my perspective) is asking why the FA treated one case different to another?

I agree it made him look like a twat, and I agree that this Liverpool fan is most probably innocent. I'm honestly not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I just cannot fathom any logical reason that the FA take action against one and not the other. That's what I'm trying to discuss, not the guilt or otherwise of a Liverpool fan or the correctness or otherwise of Norris' actions.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I tend to hark back to the "outcry" in Liverpool when the poor little scallies were all percieved as angels when returning from Hysel after the deaths of som many Italian fans by the direct action of the Liverpool fans. Anyone else remember that lawyer who came on telly suggesting that it was all the Belgians fault and Eufa and everyone else and the liverpool fans were the real victims.....it even made Thatcher sick along with the rest of the country

I just tend to think that scousers have a victim complex that sometimes works against them, as now where this bloke appears to be totally innocent.

 

[Mendoza]

Why is the fine irrelevant when the whole topic of discussion (at least from my perspective) is asking why the FA treated one case different to another?

I agree it made him look like a twat, and I agree that this Liverpool fan is most probably innocent. I'm honestly not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I just cannot fathom any logical reason that the FA take action against one and not the other. That's what I'm trying to discuss, not the guilt or otherwise of a Liverpool fan or the correctness or otherwise of Norris' actions.

That is exactly my point of starting the thread, seems weird why they have different rules for different teams, should there not be the same rules for all?