I presume you have not heard Jack Grealish speak?
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
[Football] Germany v England
- Thread starter Napper
- Start date
I presume you have not heard Jack Grealish speak?
mejonaNO12 aka riskit
Well-known member
[video]https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12619296/grealish-pep-makes-me-nervous[/video]
The above video was a really interesting interview with him post-city's title win.
I think he always speaks well. He also does silly stuff every now and then but his interviews are refreshingly honest.
Nobby Cybergoat
Well-known member
- Jul 19, 2021
- 8,638
His public speaking is better than mine at that age, so if he's the worst in the squad, i'll stick to the opinion I set out above
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
What was the result the last time we played a "competitive" game with Germany then ?
Asking for a friend.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
Insel affe
HellBilly
Remind me what they won or how many finals or semi finals they got to again ?
a load of cash and as far as an offshore bank acount?
I'm not sure it "undeniably" was. Defensively arguably yes but otherwise I don't really think so. This was the final English generation to be somewhat tactically retarded - pretty much unable to play anything but 4-4-2, severly limiting the possibilities to win anything if eg there was not one single good left midfielder.
David Beckham was a good midfielder but pretty far from the reputation he had. Gerrard and Lampard were fine but struggled with the Portuguese trio that had just won the CL, Michael Owen had not developed since about 1998 and Rooney was still young, while Heskey and Vassell were fine players but nothing you generally win a title with.
To me Foden, Kane, Sterling and Grealish are on a different level compared to what was available back then.
Generally, English players are more competitive in the CL today which indicates a step forward. Sure, they're still struggling with Spanish teams (Spanish teams are 17-0 in CL/EL finals against foreign oppositon in the last 20 years) but generally they've grown stronger and unlike for example the Arsenal side that went to play a CL final against Barcelona, most of the teams also have quite a few English players.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
That's easy...none. Which was the point I was making. This current England squad/manager have achieved more than previous squads with better players and a more successful/experienced manager. I was pointing out that this England team and manager deserve more respect for their achievements.
Yeah...no. We might have to agree to disagree on this one.
The four players you mention would get into the 2004 squad but they're not another level to it. Owen: Ballon D'Or winnner 2001. Lampard and Gerrard: Ballon D'or top 3 2005. Rooney was a sensation in 2004.
The tactical 'retardation' is something that most if not all of this squad have since come out and denied. They've all said that Sven (and Capello) insisted on playing a rigid 4-4-2. Ferdinand has said that he was told he'd be dropped if he brought the ball out of defense...
Final point in defense of Southgate achieving more with less. Here's the squad he took to England's joint second highest World cup finish:
https://www.thefa.com/news/2018/jun/04/england-world-cup-squad-numbers-040618
With the exceptions of Kane and Sterling I'm not sure any of that squad would get a look in in the 2004 one.
crodonilson
He/Him
I think Southgate has been a lucky manager as much as a good manager, look at the way we ended up on the favourable sides of the dra\w at both the Euros and WC. We finally beat a major nation in a knockout game in a (very weak) Germany at home in the Euros but beyond that we've beaten Colombia on pens, Sweden, Ukraine and Denmark after extra time. I think had the 2004 vintage got such a favourable route they may have gone as far if not further but couldn't get past a decent Portugal side losing on pens twice 2004/2006.
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
He’s gone up in my estimation since leaving Villa. Comes across as a football fan in interviews and is clearly enjoying no longer spending 90 minutes looking for penalties.
Well obviously they wouldn't say that they were tactically retarded. Not sure if its the truth or not.
Michael Owen winning Ballon D'Or was more fun than sensible and Wayne Rooney may have been "a sensation" but he still only scored 9 goals in the season before Euro 2004 (where he tbf was very good).
I think a bit more than those 2 would have made the 2004 squad. Like Vardy, who had just scored 20 goals in the PL, would probaby be picked ahead of Darius Vasell, Emile Heskey and even Wayne Rooney.
It was a great achievement with that squad though, but question is if the 2002 and 2006 WC teams wouldn't be able to achieve the same things if they had played against Sweden in the quarter-finals rather than Brazil or Portugal.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
Yeah, there's (nearly) always an element of luck involved in successful campaigns and I'm not even arguing that Southgate is a good or great manager, just that what he's achieved so far should be respected and enjoyed more rather than constantly belittled.
I've been watching England in tournaments since 1988. In that time we've had nine different managers attempt and fail to do over 15 tournaments what Southgate has done in his first two. All I'm saying is that deserves respect.
crodonilson
He/Him
It does and I agree with you, he deserves a great amount of respect he's our 2nd most successful manager ever and no matter what happens in the WC has enough credit in the bank to lead us to the next Euros.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
I did think about Vardy. Owen and Rooney are nailed on, Kane took Vassel's place so it was between Heskey and Vardy for the last striker role. Actually I'd have TAA in over Phil Neville as well. More of the current squad would get in but it would still be weighted in favour of the 2004 one.
I reckon the 2002 team would have, they had a good tournament up to half time of the Brazil game. The 2006 team I don't know. It should but that team just looked disjointed and never really got going all tournament.
I should stress that my main point is only that as England fans we(the england fans, not you) should respect this current team and managers achievements as they have done something that many many England teams and managers have consistently failed to do. And because of that we should enjoy it because we don't make semi finals or finals very often. It's much the same as with Brighton. There's no point not enjoying our time in the premier league because soon enough we'll be back in the lower leagues dreaming of these days.
Thank you for not including me in the "respect England" demand : )
Overall I agree with you, it is very difficult to complain about the results you've achieved under GS and it is something to enjoy for you guys. At the same time I also understand those who think that the team is not really playing to its strengths and that the performances in general has not been at the same level as the results. GS seems to be aware, perhaps too aware, that in the CB / DMC positions, England is pretty far behind, the best teams and try to compensate for this through playing a pretty careful football, when some other managers would have looked at the attacking options and probably gone with a more attacking philosophy... I can understand why this makes a lot of people frustrated.
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
Funnily enough I'm in the latter category. I'd love us to throw caution to the wind and go all guns blazing. Play with an if we concede two we'll score three, concede three we'll score four attitude.
It's just that Southgate is in team cautious and so far it's worked really well so I've come round to accepting it and enjoy the ride. The last two tournaments really have been enjoyable from an English perspective and if its the more cautious approach that causes that then so be it.
Have to agree with this. If you get an easy draw it makes you look better than you are.
As for Grealish, can't recall him having a bad game for England. He's a complete prat off the pitch but then so was Gascoigne and who would have dropped him when he was in his prime. He be a better option than Sterling who only ever seems intent in running up blind alleys and fails to see better placed team mates! Southgate perseverance with Mings (although he thankfully dropped him for these games) is indicative of his deficiencies as the England manager.
- Thread starter
- #279
One of my favourites this one . Reminds me of the hate and disgust every time sterling was selected for England pre euros . Was a genuine complaint from pretty much everyone who only cared about England to slag them off .
I hope this campaign starts again as last time it ended with him being player of a tournament .
Fortunately for sterling , the latest campaign seems to be building against Saka .
The four players you listed have never won a champions league. Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham and Rooney all did. Kane is world class but the others have yet to prove it when it really matters. The defence had some of the best defenders we have seen ever play for England, not something that can be said today. The 2004 squad was miles ahead of this squad and achieved far less.