[Football] German football coach condemns 'racist' TV survey

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Julian Nagelsmann: German football coach condemns broadcaster's 'racist' survey

Julian Nagelsmann condemned the poll, which asked if people wanted more white players on the German team.

www.bbc.co.uk

Good response from Julian Nagelsmann and Joshua Kimmich

 

[amexer]

A strange survey to come out of an advanced country like Germany. I would say Soth African Cricket team has had a policy of insisting so many black players are selected for years.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Incredible that a German public broadcaster should have such a tin ear. What on earth were they thinking?

 

[Brovion]

Wouldn't happen in Ger......

 

[Eeyore]

Incredible that a German public broadcaster should have such a tin ear. What on earth were they thinking?

Probably a legitimate survey to see how attitudes have changed (unless it had a loaded context). Although the result is disturbing. I think most folk don't see the colour of player's skin anymore. I remember a work conversation in 2006 I had with someone who said he didn't regard half the English cricket team as 'English'. I pointed out that Monty P was from Bedford but it still didn't change things. Attitudes still linger, so I think it's good to see where we are at for social understanding. However uncomfortable it makes us seeing the returns.

Imagine what the result would have been 1974.

Still, a long way to go.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Probably a legitimate survey to see how attitudes have changed (unless it had a loaded context). Although the result is disturbing. I think most folk don't see the colour of player's skin anymore. I remember a work conversation in 2006 I had with someone who said he didn't regard half the English cricket team as 'English'. I pointed out that Monty P was from Bedford but it still didn't change things. Attitudes still linger, so I think it's good to see where we are at for social understanding. However uncomfortable it makes us seeing the returns.

Imagine what the result would have been 1974.

Still, a long way to go.

Can you conceive of the BBC running a similar 'legitimate survey' in 2024?

 

[Eeyore]

Can you conceive of the BBC running a similar 'legitimate survey' in 2024?

No, because there is a fear attached to it that somehow it is endorsing opposing views.

I wonder what percentage of the population in England has an issue with black players in the team. We never know, because no-one would ask the question.

But we know they exist. We know such attitudes exist. Maybe if a black player misses a penalty in the shoot out such attitudes will come out.

Oh....

To change society you have to first change people. It doesn't go the other way. And to change people you have to know what they really think.

The survey is fine, just so long as the intent is not to stir up racial tensions. That bit I can't comment on because I just don't know.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

No, because there is a fear attached to it that somehow it is endorsing opposing views.

I wonder what percentage of the population in England has an issue with black players in the team. We never know, because no-one would ask the question.

But we know they exist. We know such attitudes exist. Maybe if a black player misses a penalty in the shoot out such attitudes will come out.

Oh....

To change society you have to first change people. It doesn't go the other way. And to change people you have to know what they really think.

The survey is fine, just so long as the intent is not to stir up racial tensions. That bit I can't comment on because I just don't know.

How could it possibly do otherwise? Whatever 'percentage of the population in England has an issue with black players in the team' isn't deserving of a voice in a civilised society

 

[Weststander]

Surprising/sad that anyone in Western Europe even thinks in these terms. Genuinely, all the way back to the 70’s and 80’s I didn’t analyse the colour or ethnicity of players. Barnes, Anderson, Parker, Des Walker were simply England heroes.

Proud that in these Isles football has made great strides on racism.

 

[Eeyore]

How could it possibly do otherwise? Whatever 'percentage of the population in England has an issue with black players in the team' isn't deserving of a voice in a civilised society

I fear you are conflating it as a question that legitimises the view in itself. It doesn't. But to understand where a society is at you have to ask uncomfortable questions. It doesn't mean you are neutral on the issue.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I fear you are conflating it as a question that legitimises the view in itself. It doesn't. But to understand where a society is at you have to ask uncomfortable questions. It doesn't mean you are neutral on the issue.

Agree.

Had it been an academic institute asking the same question the media response would have been quite different I feel.

 

[Bob!]

Probably a legitimate survey to see how attitudes have changed (unless it had a loaded context). Although the result is disturbing. I think most folk don't see the colour of player's skin anymore. I remember a work conversation in 2006 I had with someone who said he didn't regard half the English cricket team as 'English'. I pointed out that Monty P was from Bedford but it still didn't change things. Attitudes still linger, so I think it's good to see where we are at for social understanding. However uncomfortable it makes us seeing the returns.

Imagine what the result would have been 1974.

Still, a long way to go.

Weren't half the English team from South Africa at that time?

 

[Eeyore]

Agree.

Had it been an academic institute asking the same question the media response would have been quite different I feel.

Quite. And it's good that it was asked because one in five is huge. Folk don't realise that when they shut these things down they are merely doing so to not deal with uncomfortable truths.

I would be interested to know the result of an anonymous survey on attitudes here. We may find that the gripes about 'taking the knee' are not as valid as we think.

 

[Eeyore]

Weren't half the English team from South Africa at that time?

Sadly, with the individual concerned the opposition went deeper than that question. Hence the Monty reference. I told them Monty was from Bedford. Yet they still didn't feel he should be an England player. Basically, players of colour in the team was an issue for them. Much like it was in a clandestine way for others and much like, for a smaller number these days, I believe it still is.

It takes difficult questions like the German one to find out the extent.

 

[Pavilionaire]

How could it possibly do otherwise? Whatever 'percentage of the population in England has an issue with black players in the team' isn't deserving of a voice in a civilised society

And yet had that same poll question been put to the English public in the week after our Euro 2020 Final loss to Italy on penalties then the result could have been similar.

The German poll at least shows everybody where they are on racism in football, that there is still much work to do generally and why taking the knee is still necessary.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

And yet had that same poll question been put to the English public in the week after our Euro 2020 Final loss to Italy on penalties then the result could have been similar.

The German poll at least shows everybody where they are on racism in football, that there is still much work to do generally and why taking the knee is still necessary.

Would have been the exact same low IQ troglodytes crawling out from their caves and voting the same way tho eh?

 

[Baldseagull]

I didn't like John Barnes playing for England, because he is Jamaican by birth, but given he came here as a 12 year old, a bit of a grey area. Didn't like Lamb and Pieterson playing Cricket for England more, or Zola Bud running as a GB athlete.
Should be more Gingers in the Scotland squad though.

 

[Jackthelad]

that there is still much work to do generally and why taking the knee is still necessary.

Taking the knee is pointless, it's gaslighting activism that achieves nothing, and has a more negative effect on the war against racism. Players checking their watches and a few seconds of bending the knee is so pointless. There are far better ways to deal with racism in football and outside football.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Taking the knee is pointless, it's gaslighting activism that achieves nothing, and has a more negative effect on the war against racism. Players checking their watches and a few seconds of bending the knee is so pointless. There are far better ways to deal with racism in football and outside football.

I think you mean virtue signalling.

This reminds me of the Stewert Lee 'Health and safety gone mad' sketch.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Taking the knee is pointless, it's gaslighting activism that achieves nothing, and has a more negative effect on the war against racism. Players checking their watches and a few seconds of bending the knee is so pointless. There are far better ways to deal with racism in football and outside football.

If it is pointless then why do most of our 31,000 crowd applaud it every home game? I think it is because most fans are not racist and wish for football to be that way too.