George's Autumn Statement

[sten_super]

where's [MENTION=489]sten[/MENTION] super when you need him? Its well know that I'm not a fan of George, but I'm also not a fan of Balls. is there the likeliest chance though that Balls (and indeed Darling before him) may actually be proved right in the long run? We'll never know of course.

When he was in opposition, cameron spent 4 years trying not to have a policy. It seems labour are doing the same. If I were Balls I wouldnt actually want to win this debate yet - maybe in two years time (especially if his wife becomes leader).

Hello

I agree with you that they are both pretty useless. In terms of who is 'right' (quotation marks as you point out we'll never know) Osbourne has a lot going for him at the moment - our economy is doing less bad that Germany's and our government borrowing rates are also lower than Germany's. Of course spending could help to bolster the economy but if you're simply bringing forward spending now to take it away later (which seems likely given that the prospects for growth in the next few years aren't good at all, whatever the OBR may reckon) then it's benefits are debateable.

I didn't listen to the statement (just caught up on the Guardian liveblog) but the one thing that stands out to me is the further limits on public sector pay - I think it blows out of the water any chance of a straightforward negotiation on this pensions issue and will lead to long-running battles between the unions and the government.

 

[Pavilionaire]

710,000 public sector worker job cuts over the next 4-5 years BUT 2% plus growth by that time. Hmmm...

One of the keys is the extent to which those 710,000 retool and enter the private sector or fart arse around and drain the economy.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

One of the keys is the extent to which those 710,000 retool and enter the private sector or fart arse around and drain the economy.

Yeah, cos there's 710,000 private sector jobs going begging for those that want them. Irrespective of the job they just got cut from, and which part of the country they live in. Ridiculous post IMHO.

 

[Buzzer]

710,000 public sector worker job cuts over the next 4-5 years BUT 2% plus growth by that time. Hmmm...

One of the keys is the extent to which those 710,000 retool and enter the private sector or fart arse around and drain the economy.

I get where you're coming from but a sizeable percentage comes from not backfilling roles when people leave the public sector. There's a very real worry IMO that where the Civil Service have a very large presence in the town e.g. Bradford, Pontefract, Newcastle and those places actually have redundancies (rather than natural wastage) that they become like the mining towns did in the 80s. The knock-on effect to local businesses of taking the largest employer out of a town could be catastrophic.

 

[Ernest]

Living in cloud cuckoo land with that lot, same old Tory nonsense. I feel so sorry for those being made redundant at this time.

 

[ROSM]

I get where you're coming from but a sizeable percentage comes from not backfilling roles when people leave the public sector. There's a very real worry IMO that where the Civil Service have a very large presence in the town e.g. Bradford, Pontefract, Newcastle and those places actually have redundancies (rather than natural wastage) that they become like the mining towns did in the 80s. The knock-on effect to local businesses of taking the largest employer out of a town could be catastrophic.

Perhaps the public sector is cameron's own revenge mission (a bit like Keith Joseph did for the miners following their bringing down of Ted Heath).

We could outsource our civil service, see if we could buy the service from abroad. perhaps we should hand over the border controls to the Polish and the Prison Service to the Russians?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Yeah, cos there's 710,000 private sector jobs going begging for those that want them. Irrespective of the job they just got cut from, and which part of the country they live in. Ridiculous post IMHO.

What are you talking about?! The fact is the OBR are forecasting 710,000 public sector job losses. Economic necessity will dictate many will retool, whilst human nature dictates many will never get back in the job market. It's how many of those 710,000 find other gainful employment that will shape the recovery.

I used to work for the Home Office, I retrained as an accountant and now have my own practice. If the banks start lending to small business the rest of the infrastructure is there to start business - low interest rates, favourable rents, grants, tax relief on business investment for start-ups, broadband, technology etc.

 

[ROSM]

There is nothing in that statement that will encourage banks to increase lending. Especially those that didnt get bailed out. One mechanism would be to leverage the banks in which we have a stake - although we've now sold one of them off.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I used to work for the Home Office, I retrained as an accountant and now have my own practice. If the banks start lending to small business the rest of the infrastructure is there to start business.

Good for you. Genuinely well done. But you appear to lack empathy for anyone that isn't you.

To say 710,000 people need to 're-tool' or 'fart arse around and drain the economy' is an insult to a huge number of people, the majority of whom will not be able to do what you did.

Have a word with yourself.

 

[Buzzer]

Perhaps the public sector is cameron's own revenge mission (a bit like Keith Joseph did for the miners following their bringing down of Ted Heath).

We could outsource our civil service, see if we could buy the service from abroad. perhaps we should hand over the border controls to the Polish and the Prison Service to the Russians?

If it means more East European women then I'm all for it.

 

[vulture]

what we have here is no hope....tories rubbish labour with the 2 eds even worse....god help us

 

[Buzzer]

Perhaps the public sector is cameron's own revenge mission (a bit like Keith Joseph did for the miners following their bringing down of Ted Heath).

We could outsource our civil service, see if we could buy the service from abroad. perhaps we should hand over the border controls to the Polish and the Prison Service to the Russians?

In all seriousness, the expansion of the public sector under the previous Government needs to be pulled back to manageable levels. It's the speed and ferocity that they seem to want to cut it that worries me.

 

[sten_super]

Good for you. Genuinely well done. But you appear to lack empathy for anyone that isn't you.

To say 710,000 people need to 're-tool' or 'fart arse around and drain the economy' is an insult to a huge number of people, the majority of whom will not be able to do what you did.

Have a word with yourself.

I think you are genuinely missing Pav's point, which is that the latest OBR figures suggest a 'reduction' in public sector employment of 710,000. What proportion of these people become long-term unemployment, and what proportion find alternative employment (either using similar skills to those they already possess or re-skilling for a new industry) will have a big impact in determining how well the economy the performs.

 

[ROSM]

If it means more East European women then I'm all for it.

I can tell you're a change management professional.

You've done the Shock and Anger, you're now at the rationalisation stage. Next stop Acceptance!

Seriously though as you say in your next post - there is always an issue between Labour (Big Government) and Tory (Small Government). Its how the direction change is managed and whilst there are clearly 'non jobs' that need to be resolved, the pace and level of change is a worry. As Ed Balls may say - 'too far and too fast'.

 

[ROSM]

I think you are genuinely missing Pav's point, which is that the latest OBR figures suggest a 'reduction' in public sector employment of 710,000. What proportion of these people become long-term unemployment, and what proportion find alternative employment (either using similar skills to those they already possess or re-skilling for a new industry) will have a big impact in determining how well the economy the performs.

I understand that - its the assumption that those who dont find alternative employment are 'fart arsing' around

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think you are genuinely missing Pav's point, which is that the latest OBR figures suggest a 'reduction' in public sector employment of 710,000. What proportion of these people become long-term unemployment, and what proportion find alternative employment (either using similar skills to those they already possess or re-skilling for a new industry) will have a big impact in determining how well the economy the performs.

I'm genuinely not missing his insulting generalised denigration of people who he perceives will somehow select the life choice option to 'fart arse around and drain the economy' rather than 're-tool'.

 

[sten_super]

Fair enough, my bad. I certainly accept that his choice of language in his first post wasn't great, but it was a bit of a throwaway line... his underlying point is certainly valid.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If the banks start lending to small business the rest of the infrastructure is there to start business - low interest rates, favourable rents, grants, tax relief on business investment for start-ups, broadband, technology etc.

All you then need is customers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

710,000 public sector worker job cuts over the next 4-5 years BUT 2% plus growth by that time. Hmmm...

One of the keys is the extent to which those 710,000 retool and enter the private sector or fart arse around and drain the economy.

I'm pretty confident that these 710k will be people who want to work as opposed to sitting on their arse.

 

[Bozza]

At least we can all agree that at these times of widespread global troubles, it is fortunate that we have a strong-willed Conservative government leading the country through the darkness back to the good times with a steady torch.

That they are not afraid of making the tough decisions is a blessing to us all.

Heaven knows what state we'd be in if Labour had managed to cling onto power.