[Help] General question on deposit for building work

[Neville's Breakfast]

I’ve just had a customer say they don’t like the new doors I’ve made for her and she wants them re-made in a different style. For the first time in 40’years I’ve thought about the small claims court.
Get a deposit if you can builders.

Where else can you receive your product and then pay later.

Most service industries.
Payment in advance is for buying stuff. If I order some clothes online then I pay in advance. If I order a meal in a restaurant I receive the product then pay later if it is to the expected standard. Same applies for tradesmen and with communication mostly works really well. We have built up a local network of decent people who have done some really good work on our house. All on recommendation. The one mistake we made was finding someone online and they are the ones who have had scaffolding on our house for months whilst not finishing the job.

 

[happypig]

We're halfway through a loft conversion (with other bits) and are using a builder we've used thrice before. They always ask for a deposit of around 5-50% to get the job booked in then staged payments every 2/3 weeks and a final invoice.
I had one guy quote me for a job and he proudly said "I never ask for deposits" but he seemed a total arse.

And, yes, tea/biscuits/cake(fridays) in large quantities (plus ice lollies when it's hot)

 

[Justice]

Don’t do it. We are having some work done and it has taken months. Loads of dry days but they have clearly been taking on other jobs. They are not getting a penny until the work is complete.

Edit; just seen it’s too late, sorry.

So you haven’t paid anything yet and you are wondering why it’s taking months? I don’t know who agreed the terms it is very unusual.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

So you haven’t paid anything yet and you are wondering why it’s taking months? I don’t know who agreed the terms it is very unusual.

We agreed to the terms and the price set by the company. No payment was asked for. They are the agreed terms. They are the same terms as agreed with other tradesmen around here and this is the first time we have had an issue. I don’t think our surprise is surprising nor do all our neighbours (formerly potential customers of said company) we have relayed the story to. I’m thinking the scaffolder may have an issue with them at some point though, given it is all on fixed price including his share. I suppose that all depends on whether they need the scaffolding elsewhere or whether they want to store it on our house.

Ps, we also had an apology from one of the workers for us being messed around. He knows it is out of order so I don’t think we are out of line in any way.

 

[Questions]

As I’ve been told by friends in the trade often enough… ‘Get something up front on anything over a few grand. Why should you finance their jobs until completion’

You’ll find deposits are becoming more the norm nowadays …

And where are all the documentaries on the tv about customers from hell

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

As I’ve been told by friends in the trade often enough… ‘Get something up front on anything over a few grand. Why should you finance their jobs until completion’

You’ll find deposits are becoming more the norm nowadays …

And where are all the documentaries on the tv about customers from hell

Go for it. I would have no problem providing it’s not one way. If the customer gets legally enforcable guarantees and penalty clauses I’m all in favour of it. Are you ?

 

[Balders]

We paid a 10% deposit on an extension - we found the Builder on Rated People and he was excellent at communicating etc... until we paid him the deposit. Some of the excuses were mind blowing and then he went off the grid. Pursued through Rated People, Trading Standards and nothing. Last resort was a CCJ which we obtained with little fuss.

The CCJ didn't prompt him to any kind of action, so we went to a Company called AYOM Ltd which in hindsight we wished we didn't. Positive was he repaid the debt within 24hrs of receiving a phone call and email from them. Negative is that AYOM Ltd are absolute miss selling con merchants - at least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask. 14 months after paying the deposit, we still haven't received it from AYOM Ltd - their 10% charge to cover "all aspects of collection" has now morphed into a 48.5% plus VAT charge because the Debtor refused to pay their costs (legally he doesn't have to, but they assured us originally he has to!) so we are now responsible for these charges! Check out their Trust Pilot Reviews.

Rated People removed him from their site, but have now reinstated him because he proved he'd repaid the money (8 months after the alleged start date of the job!) Rated People were told that he hasn't been successful in getting his CCJ removed as he didn't repay it in time, so Rated People are promoting a Builder with a current CCJ - you can't make this stuff up.....

Anyway got another Builder in (this time off My Builder) we knocked the extension on the head and changed to renovating the kitchen/dining room which was part of the original plan - paid him for materials a couple of days before he started and had no problems whatsoever.

 

[mikeyjh]

Most service industries.
Payment in advance is for buying stuff. If I order some clothes online then I pay in advance. If I order a meal in a restaurant I receive the product then pay later if it is to the expected standard. Same applies for tradesmen and with communication mostly works really well. We have built up a local network of decent people who have done some really good work on our house. All on recommendation. The one mistake we made was finding someone online and they are the ones who have had scaffolding on our house for months whilst not finishing the job.

This - I've got a few houses dotted around so obviously loads of work needed doing on those and my home over the years, I've never paid a deposit and never would, the only time I've been asked was for materials for somewhere the trade didn't have an account so I bought the materials myself. As you said, as soon as you're searching online trouble can start brewing....

 

[LamieRobertson]

Always ask for materials up front unless it’s some piddly amount and communicate if the date needs to be changed

Hope your situation resolves itself UC

 

[Uncle C]

We paid a 10% deposit on an extension - we found the Builder on Rated People and he was excellent at communicating etc... until we paid him the deposit. Some of the excuses were mind blowing and then he went off the grid. Pursued through Rated People, Trading Standards and nothing. Last resort was a CCJ which we obtained with little fuss.

The CCJ didn't prompt him to any kind of action, so we went to a Company called AYOM Ltd which in hindsight we wished we didn't. Positive was he repaid the debt within 24hrs of receiving a phone call and email from them. Negative is that AYOM Ltd are absolute miss selling con merchants - at least Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask. 14 months after paying the deposit, we still haven't received it from AYOM Ltd - their 10% charge to cover "all aspects of collection" has now morphed into a 48.5% plus VAT charge because the Debtor refused to pay their costs (legally he doesn't have to, but they assured us originally he has to!) so we are now responsible for these charges! Check out their Trust Pilot Reviews.

Rated People removed him from their site, but have now reinstated him because he proved he'd repaid the money (8 months after the alleged start date of the job!) Rated People were told that he hasn't been successful in getting his CCJ removed as he didn't repay it in time, so Rated People are promoting a Builder with a current CCJ - you can't make this stuff up.....

Anyway got another Builder in (this time off My Builder) we knocked the extension on the head and changed to renovating the kitchen/dining room which was part of the original plan - paid him for materials a couple of days before he started and had no problems whatsoever.

Sorry you had that experience. There are scumbacks out their willing to exploit every situation.

 

[Uncle C]

The excuses are at least entertaining. ‘Vans off the road’ is my favourite. Rumbled when he turned up in one to drop off someone to work on something then same excuse used the following week. I also rang the office last Saturday and the lady said they were loading up the vans. Our guy then came on the line to tell me it was too hot to work that day ! Probably loading up the vans with a picnic. We’ve also had the ‘we’ve blocked out the week to finish your job’ classic. That was several weeks ago. Had no trouble at all with other tradesmen in the area, who presumably care about reputation and referrals…

Yep throw in:
1. A dose of Covid, first for the builder, followed by his workers
2 Got delayed at another job
3. Got called back to a previous customer
4. Mobile phone went flat
5. Have to service my Council contracts first - they are my bread and butter
6. Wife will send over the refund tomorrow when she goes to the Office. (said on several occasions)
7. Council have not paid us and we have no money at the moment.
8. Will deliver the raw materials that I have bought for your job tomorrow (said on several occasions)
9. My labourers are very unreliable
10. Stuck in London
11. Running a bit behind
12. I have let myself down badly
13. Lost your Bank details

 

[Stat Brother]

Yep throw in:
1. A dose of Covid, first for the builder, followed by his workers
2 Got delayed at another job
3. Got called back to a previous customer
4. Mobile phone went flat
5. Have to service my Council contracts first - they are my bread and butter
6. Wife will send over the refund tomorrow when she goes to the Office. (said on several occasions)
7. Council have not paid us and we have no money at the moment.
8. Will deliver the raw materials that I have bought for your job tomorrow (said on several occasions)
9. My labourers are very unreliable
10. Stuck in London
11. Running a bit behind
12. I have let myself down badly
13. Lost your Bank details

Is he building the palace stand, as well?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Construction Contracts don’t cater for upfront payments, unless specifically agreed. I would ensure that you enter into a Contract with the builder that clarifies payment terms, retention etc. I wouldn’t use a builder that doesn’t have sufficient cash flow to accept this.

 

[Uncle C]

I wouldn’t use a builder that doesn’t have sufficient cash flow to accept this.

Can you clarify for us how you get access to his Bank Account.

 

[Uncle C]

Is he building the palace stand, as well?

Funnily enough he does do contract work for Croydon Council.

 

[Uncle C]

Construction Contracts don’t cater for upfront payments, unless specifically agreed.

What exactly does this mean. The Builder asks for a deposit to reserve a slot and buy raw materials. The deposit is paid and a written receipt is received. Where does that fall?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Can you clarify for us how you get access to his Bank Account.

If he asks for a deposit you can assume he doesn’t have the cash flow. TBF I don’t think that’s an issue for our work as he seems in no hurry to get any money out of us.

 

[Balders]

I think as somebody posted earlier, this sort of stuff works both ways - I've known Builders (and other Tradesman) in the past who have been caught out proceeding without a deposit, purchased materials and then been turned over by the Customer. Yes there are conning Tradespeople but there are also conning customers. You pays your money and takes your chance imho.....

 

[Uncle C]

If he asks for a deposit you can assume he doesn’t have the cash flow. TBF I don’t think that’s an issue for our work as he seems in no hurry to get any money out of us.

Or, as many have said, has been bitten by bad customers before.

 

[portlock seagull]

I think it’s worth paying the big guys more with proper recourse if not satisfactory.

So many locals, even those highly recommended, where friends been done over, 3 yr court battles, tens thousands lost etc. Treat everyone with suspicion, interview them, dozens of references and speak to those persons, nail down every detail in writing etc. Yes it’s a pain and may put some off doing work for you but those are precisely the ones you don’t want to be dealing with.

Good luck! And don’t trust any of them, at every stage, until complete. And even then…

Unfortunately the Building Industry has a massive reputation for being like the Wild West. Because it is basically.