[Politics] General Election 2024 - The Poll

[Randy McNob]

Apparantly the 4 July was chosen because new university students register and move home so they are trying hamper young people from voting, and England will be playing so generally working class / floaters might be less inclined / forget to vote

 

[rippleman]

The Criminal Justice System is shattered, more than broken. Don't arrest if it's not necessary!!

Yup! But that wasn't politicians telling the OB to stop nicking people it was, er, the police. The National Police Chiefs’ Council to be specific.

Police chiefs told to arrest fewer people to save space in overcrowded prisons

Police chiefs have been told to arrest fewer people due to a shortage of space for prisoners across England and Wales, internal documents show.

www.lbc.co.uk

Alfie Moore, former copper and now comedian (It's A Fair Cop - R4) said on one of his recent shows that police only spend around 20% of their time preventing crime or solving crime. WTAF are they doing then?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Is there a time when the country voted in Labour and they 'fecked it up'? Yet the Tories always 'feck it up' in the end

In the last 40 odd years we've had Tories and 1 period of Blair / Brown. That new labour period was the best time of government of that 40+ year period, year upon year of growth, better investment in public services, stronger NHS and most importantly a united country. The Tories have only ever brought division, wealth inequality and decline in public services as they only serve the interests of the wealthy.

Judge parties on their record - not preconceptions or misconceptions

Amazing how little connection there is to their failure to act, for example to cool house price increases (10%+ per year was never a good thing) and the problems it's resulted in now

* Higher prices stopping new buyers (especially younger generations) from being able to get on the housing ladder but also meaning those that do buy will have to pay more in repayments, (over more years) reducing disposable income.
* Led to a higher cost of living, meaning individuals have less disposable income, and were less able to respond to economic shocks (like higher prices caused by the war in Ukraine, etc) and more likely to have to turn to loans / food banks to get by.
* A consequence was the pushing up the cost of renting.
* They artificially propped up the housing market during the economic crash, rather than allow house prices to adjust and decrease (because they feared upsetting potential home owning voters who would have been impacted and could have been left with negative equity on their property)

However at the time they used those increases to help stimulate the economy, meaning there were a lot who borrowed against the increased equity of their property to fund a higher living standard, but getting themselves into more debt.

They did nothing to tackle those who were trying to take advantage of 0% credit card deals, which encouraged debt and rather than pay it off, they simply switched it to another 0% offer, so people lived beyond their means and when those deals finally ended, they found themselves struggling to afford to live due to the amount of debt they had built up. (turning to loans, etc)

They did little to tackle things like pay day loans, with their extreme interest rates which were far higher than what banks would have charged but it was quick easy access to short term cash often little or no thought for the long term implications (live in the moment, who cares about the future when the reality of those choices kick in)

They increased the tax burden on a lot of low income earners, (direct and indirect taxation) many of whom wouldn't be eligible for any kind of state help.

This all led to people less able to cope with any potential financial crisis they may have faced (2008 crash for example, or simply losing access to low cost credit or left struggling to repay high interest pay day loans) and this led to a lot ending up in a spiral of debt that some are still struggling with.

 

[jimhigham]

Think this is worth a bookmark as well: https://sotn.newstatesman.com/2024/05/britainpredicts

Zoomed in on East Grinstead and Uckfield - their model predicts Conservative hold currently, but Lib Dems are within range. Beware any tactical voting site that doesn't match up to what this modelling suggests, IMO.

Thanks for the reminder. I've not checked that site in some time. Just checking in, it has Woking to turn LibDem with a margin of almost 10 points. That would certainly put a tiger in my tank.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Yup! But that wasn't politicians telling the OB to stop nicking people it was, er, the police. The National Police Chiefs’ Council to be specific.

Police chiefs told to arrest fewer people to save space in overcrowded prisons

Police chiefs have been told to arrest fewer people due to a shortage of space for prisoners across England and Wales, internal documents show.

www.lbc.co.uk

Alfie Moore, former copper and now comedian (It's A Fair Cop - R4) said on one of his recent shows that police only spend around 20% of their time preventing crime or solving crime. WTAF are they doing then?

Paperwork. Computer systems that aren't compatible with other CJS systems.

When someone is arrested, they go into custody cells not prisons?

 

[rippleman]

I've met Beccy, and think she'll do a fine job as a MP. Seems very grounded but quietly principled, so I'm hoping she won't be fodder for the whips.

Hmm. Not so sure. My Ward elected the official Labour candidate in a local election. But within weeks she had suspended him from the local Labour Party thereby disenfranchising me and my fellow Labour voters. (The chap, whose name escapes, soldiered on as an Independent and did a bloody good job).

However, she is up against Bottomley, a real ignoramous and puffed up with his own importance. On one occasion he was so unbelievebly rude that the fragrant Virginia had to apologise for his behaviour. It's time for him to go.

 

[Littlemo]

Is there a time when the country voted in Labour and they 'fecked it up'? Yet the Tories always 'feck it up' in the end

In the last 40 odd years we've had Tories and 1 period of Blair / Brown. That new labour period was the best time of government of that 40+ year period, year upon year of growth, better investment in public services, stronger NHS and most importantly a united country. The Tories have only ever brought division, wealth inequality and decline in public services as they only serve the interests of the wealthy.

Judge parties on their record - not preconceptions or misconceptions

I genuinely find it weird when people go on about the minor details of other parties and their policies as reasons why they can’t vote for them.

Yet they somehow can look at the absolute mess the Tories have made of the country, not just deliberately running down services such as the NHS to push them to privatisation, but letting things like Brexit happen, cruel schemes like Rwanda, the fraudulent funnelling of billions of pounds in tax to companies owned by their friends and family; and still think “Yeah, that’s the party I’ll go for, they will really make a difference this time”, even though they haven’t for the past 15-odd years.

 

[Flounce]

Would the ideal scenario be to just have two parties? The only two who have any chance of winning?

 

[Diablo]

Seems to me the choice is between the devil you know and the devil you don`t.
We all "know" what the tories have done.
We all know Labour "claims"(unsurprisingly) they would have done better.

? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[armchairclubber]

Yup! But that wasn't politicians telling the OB to stop nicking people it was, er, the police. The National Police Chiefs’ Council to be specific.

Police chiefs told to arrest fewer people to save space in overcrowded prisons

Police chiefs have been told to arrest fewer people due to a shortage of space for prisoners across England and Wales, internal documents show.

www.lbc.co.uk

Alfie Moore, former copper and now comedian (It's A Fair Cop - R4) said on one of his recent shows that police only spend around 20% of their time preventing crime or solving crime. WTAF are they doing then?

Committing crime?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

This is where, to a large extent, the FPTP-promoted "two party" political system breaks down. When it comes to who forms government, we are faced with two choices: the Conservatives on the right, and Labour on the left. For an awful lot of us who vote, however, it's not that simple. Take me for example:

1. I generally favour "right leaning" economic policy. I agree with the right that competition in markets generally leads to better markets - promotes research, promotes efficiency, etc. But I fundamentally disagree with the approach the right takes where they seem to think that privatisation of absolutely everything in an attempt to promote competition works. There are certain "markets" where maintaining public ownership and/or heavily regulating is required. Just need to look at what's happened with water (they haven't created competitive markets, they've created localised monopolies and allowed those monopolies to siphon off cash instead of re-investing); rail (again, largely speaking local monopolies that just haven't worked) etc.

2. I generally favour "left leaning" social policy. I agree with the left that society should support those less well off. I think the NHS was a wonderful creation. But I am left wondering if the UKs obsession with a "free at point of use, for everyone" system has resulted in a demonisation of the private sector that could, if used right, help to supplement the public system and take pressure off. The NHS has become so large it's bloated. It's underfunded as well, but also bloated, and it needs reform.

2a. "Green" policy is seen as the preserve of a "left fringe". Which is utterly stupid. Environmentally friendly policy is not a left-vs-right issue. The right has a fundamentally outdated view that pro-environment policy holds back "progress" and economic growth, which has blinded them entirely to the reality that faces us today: which, IMO, is that the biggest area of potential for economic growth is in green policy and green economy.

Neither the Conservatives, nor Labour, represent my views in the UK. Nor, sadly, do the Lib Dems, which is largely because they appear to have accepted their fate to forever be that annoying party in between the two beasts.

Very well put.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is where, to a large extent, the FPTP-promoted "two party" political system breaks down. When it comes to who forms government, we are faced with two choices: the Conservatives on the right, and Labour on the left. For an awful lot of us who vote, however, it's not that simple. Take me for example:

1. I generally favour "right leaning" economic policy. I agree with the right that competition in markets generally leads to better markets - promotes research, promotes efficiency, etc. But I fundamentally disagree with the approach the right takes where they seem to think that privatisation of absolutely everything in an attempt to promote competition works. There are certain "markets" where maintaining public ownership and/or heavily regulating is required. Just need to look at what's happened with water (they haven't created competitive markets, they've created localised monopolies and allowed those monopolies to siphon off cash instead of re-investing); rail (again, largely speaking local monopolies that just haven't worked) etc.

2. I generally favour "left leaning" social policy. I agree with the left that society should support those less well off. I think the NHS was a wonderful creation. But I am left wondering if the UKs obsession with a "free at point of use, for everyone" system has resulted in a demonisation of the private sector that could, if used right, help to supplement the public system and take pressure off. The NHS has become so large it's bloated. It's underfunded as well, but also bloated, and it needs reform.

2a. "Green" policy is seen as the preserve of a "left fringe". Which is utterly stupid. Environmentally friendly policy is not a left-vs-right issue. The right has a fundamentally outdated view that pro-environment policy holds back "progress" and economic growth, which has blinded them entirely to the reality that faces us today: which, IMO, is that the biggest area of potential for economic growth is in green policy and green economy.

Neither the Conservatives, nor Labour, represent my views in the UK. Nor, sadly, do the Lib Dems, which is largely because they appear to have accepted their fate to forever be that annoying party in between the two beasts.

a lot agreeable, there's more 2a than that. green policies have become mainstream over 20-30 years, certainly not fringe. the issue you raise is where green policy dictates certain solutions must be followed. the right, neo-liberal view reacts against that because it excludes market on what might be better options and calls out that massive subsidies are not real economic growth. the right, conservative view is they don't want any solar farms or wind turbines round their part of the country.

 

[Eeyore]

Can folk honestly tell me why they would vote Reform ?

A party that cannot properly vet it's candidates and has had to drop quite a load because of stuff that has turned up

You want them running the country ? Curious

 

[Audax]

a lot agreeable, there's more 2a than that. green policies have become mainstream over 20-30 years, certainly not fringe. the issue you raise is where green policy dictates certain solutions must be followed. the right, neo-liberal view reacts against that because it excludes market on what might be better options and calls out that massive subsidies are not real economic growth. the right, conservative view is they don't want any solar farms or wind turbines round their part of the country.

A lot of the automatic "no thanks" to green policy from Conservatives is thanks to the historic situation of green policy being the preserve of the Green party, which around most of the world has generally been positioned on the left fringe when you take into account their full policy profiles.

It is starting to change. You've got the "Teal Independents" in Australia, for example, who are right-leaning economics but pro-Green. It's a shame that in this country, there's no genuine political impetus on the right to adopt significant pro-green policies except where they are forced into it. And that's despite the rapid growth of pro-Green business and economics - just look at the likes of Octopus shaking things up, Myenergi and co in the home/personal transport green sector. Labour have shown a few signs of wanting to encourage the pro-Green economy, but so far even for them it's still a bit more ideologically driven (eg the proposed publicly owned green energy provider).

 

[Bold Seagull]

Apparantly the 4 July was chosen because new university students register and move home so they are trying hamper young people from voting, and England will be playing so generally working class / floaters might be less inclined / forget to vote

New university students won't even have their A-level results or have confirmation of a place in July. Even then, they don't move into halls or digs until September. Not sure what the evidence for that would be?

 

[Monkey Man]

I have no tribal loyalties at all in politics and can find good and bad things to say about pretty much all the parties.

However my number one ambition at this election is to remove the current government and I'll vote for the party best placed to unseat or keep out the Tory candidate.

That's why I'll vote Lib Dem in Lewes. I'd vote Green in Brighton Pavilion, and Labour in Hastings.

 

[Official Old Man]

As mentioned elsewhere, I will spoil my paper simply because I don't trust any of them.
Was surprised when I was told the candidates see all the spoilt votes.

 

[WATFORD zero]

As mentioned elsewhere, I will spoil my paper simply because I don't trust any of them.
Was surprised when I was told the candidates see all the spoilt votes.

That's fair enough if you are happy to let others decide who you will have governing you for the next 5 years. It's better than not bothering to vote

 

[Leekbrookgull]

If not posted before Jezza Corbyn is set up to stand in Islington North, could be blood on the carpet.

 

[POP_TONEZ]

I will be spoiling my ballet as I will never vote labour again.