[Politics] General Election 2024 - 4th July

[Thunder Bolt]

Betting. It’s not just a tenner or even a hundred

 

[Weststander]

But we had tax increases and illegal immigration issues under 14 years of the Tories and they can't get away with it.

The issue I have these debates is frankly they are organised by TV companies as if we lived under a presidential system. We don't.

If you wanted the truth, we'd have non partisan independent experts dissecting the plans and giving an honest view. But that doesn't make good telly.

The truth is that whoever is in charge needs more money to fix the public services and some of us are going to have to pay for it.

The real issue is social care as anyone of my age knows. Both parties know it's a difficult and very expensive issue, but if you were honest with the electorate and threw money at it, it would release more than it costs to be spent on the NHS.

Unfortunately the electorate often want quick wins and aren't interested in the long term solutions.

Proper social care might save NHS money. Finally, someone’s talking about that, Wes Streeting. Talk is easy, can they alter vast organisations?

Taxation … Labour must shirley plan to significantly increase it, they just won’t come clean. Otherwise where’s the money to recreate an equivalent of Surestart, settle the doctors dispute, cut vast NHS waiting lists, administer more affordable homes, look after carers and the disabled?

The underlying question is who’ll they go after with tax increases. Some experts talk (not Tory papers) that they’ll look at pension 25% tax free lump sums over time. Affecting future countless millions, political suicide?

 

[Weststander]

Wes Streeting on Newsnight. Never seen him before. He's really impressive.

Heard him lots on LBC over the last year or two. A kind person, with a plan. Loathed by hard left in recent months in his constituency, faced death threats.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Betting. It’s not just a tenner or even a hundred

And that's no insurance bet.

 

[Eeyore]

And that's no insurance bet.

Former bookmaker

I do my best not to attack folk's characters as much as possible, but I have never regarded Davies anything other than a horrid little man

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Heard him lots on LBC over the last year or two. A kind person, with a plan. Loathed by hard left in recent months in his constituency, faced death threats.

Great to hear! He seemed confident and honest, and gracious to his tory counterpart (with whom he declared to be on good terms).

 

[Curious Orange]

Mostly Liberal Democrat bumph through the door here in leafy Guildford, even got canvassed by them too. Nothing else from the other parties apart from one flyer from the encumbant Conservative MP.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Former bookmaker

I do my best not to attack folk's characters as much as possible, but I have never regarded Davies anything other than a horrid little man

Strong!

 

[drew]

Thought Sunak was going to come out with 'Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox in the middle of the night, and lick road clean with tongues! We had to eat half a handful of freezing-cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at that mill for fourpence (4 pennies) every six years, and when we got home... our dad would slice us in two with a bread knife before watching Sky sports.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Well this has been a painful watch. Mishal Hussain's moderation tonight has been absolutely awful; she was good first time around but was clearly thrown by the constant sound of protesters for the first 20-25 minutes.

She's allowed Sunak to state his spurious claim that Starmer will put up taxes on at least 15 separate occasions so far, yet only repeating the £2,000 lie figure in his closing statement which Starmer couldn't come back on and she didn't rebuke Sunak for.

Sunak's response to the Brexit question was abysmal, but he landed blows on Starmer on tax and - weirdly - immigration, he was feisty, had a clarity about him but was charmless, hectoring, overbearing and he just doesn't listen. He would have got 8/10 but over-egged it and so comes down to Starmer's 7/10.

I suspect people will say Sunak edged it but for me another draw, albeit a bad tempered one.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Wes Streeting on Newsnight. Never seen him before. He's really impressive.

For me he is one of the most impressive politicians in UK politics, a shoe-in to be next Labour leader and a probable future Prime Minister. He is more personable and charismatic than Starmer, and that is gold dust in an election.

 

[Zeberdi]

Well this has been a painful watch. Mishal Hussain's moderation tonight has been absolutely awful; she was good first time around but was clearly thrown by the constant sound of protesters for the first 20-25 minutes.

She's allowed Sunak to state his spurious claim that Starmer will put up taxes on at least 15 separate occasions so far, yet only repeating the £2,000 lie figure in his closing statement which Starmer couldn't come back on and she didn't rebuke Sunak for.

Sunak's response to the Brexit question was abysmal, but he landed blows on Starmer on tax and - weirdly - immigration, he was feisty, had a clarity about him but was charmless, hectoring, overbearing and he just doesn't listen. He would have got 8/10 but over-egged it and so comes down to Starmer's 7/10.

I suspect people will say Sunak edged it but for me another draw, albeit a bad tempered one.

One of the tax promises proudly and boldly announced by Sunak - “and we’ll abolish Stamp Duty for all first time buyers!”

Laughable really when the threshold for paying STLT on residential properties is already at £425,000 for first time buyers - how many first time buyers buy a property for £425,000 or over?

That’s the sort of empty policy promise that will benefit the rich kids of Tory ministers in living in London that’s just about all. Outside London, the average value of first time buyer homes is well below £425,000 so already exempt from Stamp Duty.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/discover/property-news/whats-the-average-first-time-buyer-deposit-by-region/

 

[Thunder Bolt]

These debates are useless as nobody is fact checking at the time, and viewers won’t be bothered to verify afterwards.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Tax increases under Labour and no real plan with the illegal immigrants issue stood out in tonight's debate for me.

I fear what Sunak says will come to pass if Labour get in re taxation

Yep, I heard that too. I heard that from Sunak, and Starmer rebutted it, when given the chance to at least. That whole debate seemed to be Starmer setting out what he wants to do and Sunak saying he didn't believe him. I don't know how far you can go with a debate like that 'la la la , don't believe you, la la la'. A debate is supposed to be on how you solve issues, on what your policies are, not on constantly saying you don't believe those are your policies.

But Sunak was at least adept at pursuing that kind of attack, which is all about instilling the fear of the unknown, and he seems to have made you afraid, which is a shame. However the prospect of another five years of this Tory govenment is positively terrifying!

 

[oldboyroy]

Sunak beat Starmer last night hands down. Despite the opinion polls and bookies odds, I still have this gut wrenching feeling that the election will be closer than most think. My hope is tories get trounced but on last night alone, think most of undecided will vote Tory.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Betting. It’s not just a tenner or even a hundred

Not that I'm defending him but it does seem rather unlikely a bookie would take that size of bet for a near certainty win.

 

[Jim in the West]

Sunak beat Starmer last night hands down. Despite the opinion polls and bookies odds, I still have this gut wrenching feeling that the election will be closer than most think. My hope is tories get trounced but on last night alone, think most of undecided will vote Tory.

I guess the issue is - how many undecideds were watching last night? Also - there seems to be quite a bit of debate about who actually won. Polls of viewers put it 50/50 or a slight win for Starmer. I think if you’re an anti-Tory voter you will be frustrated that Starmer couldn’t land more punches, and therefore tend towards a view that Sunak won. I didn’t watch it, but reading the FT comments that’s very much the view. The FT readership is generally VERY anti-Tory, by the way.
But like you I’m concerned that things will be a lot closer than the polls suggest.

 

[aolstudios]

Wes Streeting on Newsnight. Never seen him before. He's really impressive.

Very relaxed last night. Looks like a grown up minister

 

[Thunder Bolt]

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Sunak beat Starmer last night hands down. Despite the opinion polls and bookies odds, I still have this gut wrenching feeling that the election will be closer than most think. My hope is tories get trounced but on last night alone, think most of undecided will vote Tory.

You could be right. All the polls indicated a clear victory for remain at the Brexit referendum and I believe a lot of remainers didnt turn out to vote because they believed the result was already a foregone conclusion. I appreciate referendums and GE's are two different things, but I feel the foregoing and the fact that a lot of Tory voters won't admit they are, publicly, will produce a closer result than currently predicted. I sincerely hope not, though.