[Politics] General Election 2024 - 4th July

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

expect this largely because they aren't a proper strucutured party, anyone willing to stump up a deposit can stand under the banner.

Can’t entirely agree with all that.
I voted Remain and for me, the fact that Johnson backed Leave was a huge black mark against him. I didn’t particularly like him, but hoped that he would ‘grow/mature into the PM role. Well, I got that seriously wrong. Nevertheless, it cannot be denied that the fact that Corbyn was the leader of the Labour Party and was up for PM scared the fu…ng pants of a hell of a lot of people in the country, including sensible Labour voters. That was a contributory factor in the landslide defeat. If Labour had had a half sensible bloke/blokess in charge, then I think the result would have been rather less catastrophic for the party.
Yes, that is my personal take on things, but I don’t imagine I was the only one with those thoughts.

Sorry I seem to have misrepresented myself. Corbyn was an important reason why Labour couldn't win. Of course. His antipathy towards Europe meant he wasn't a lightening rod for remainers (versus May). I lost any hope I had he might have the wit to realize labour is a broad church and requires wise leadership when, days after he was elected leader, he faked a lost signal when he couldn't deal with an interview, and then dithered over announcements, finally dithering over anti-Semitism. I appreciate that Johnson hid in a freezer, and I appreciate labour got millions of votes when Corbyn was leader (and indeed won the general election by a landslide, according to Corbyn supporters), but it was what it was.

My main point is that Corbyn, having lost two general elections, left the Tories with the working majority that made them (the Tories) entirely responsible for what happened to our country. Had things worked out well for the Tories people wouldn't now be congratulating Corbyn's labour party (or indeed Starmer's) for being the effective opposition that kept the Tories honest. They would be praising the Tories for doing a terrific job. As it should be. The opposite is the case so the buck has to stop with the Tories.

(And of course I wish, I just wish that everything could have been completely different, to quote Richard Richard).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I see the Lib Dems have been the first party in this to actually mention that it might be a good idea to re-enter the European single market and pledging it in their manifesto. I know Starmer is trying to win back the red wall and is trying to avoid this becoming a single-issue election again, but bloody hell, Brexit and our future relationship with the EU really has been an elephant in the room, hasn't it?

Perhaps. But for the moment a sedated elephant - if not a dead, stuffed elephant.

Get into power, evaluate the piece, identify problems and consider solutions. Managing Brexit will loom large quickly, with the Irish border still not resolved, and a joint strategy with the EU for 'the boats' also incomplete. Brexiteers claim that the full benefit of Brexit has not yet been realized. The argument is equal that the full harm has also yet to be realized.

So time will tell and as you fear there may be trouble ahead. If Farage is elected I might be tempted to co-opt him as minister in charge of making Brexit work. He would of course refuse.

 

[drew]

Hmmm.... Corbyn-Labour were too poor to win a general election but that doesn't exonerates the bastards who won. Blair beat someone whose name I can no longer remember (and some other bugger after that, and one more time for an encore) but he wasn't a 3 term winner because the opposition were blindingly brilliant.

No, the recent tories have been shit because....they are shit and have blagged their way into a power they had no idea how to exercise. That's all there is to it.

Major, Hague and Howard were the three tories defeated by Blair.

 

[ROSM]

Perhaps. But for the moment a sedated elephant - if not a dead, stuffed elephant.

Get into power, evaluate the piece, identify problems and consider solutions. Managing Brexit will loom large quickly, with the Irish border still not resolved, and a joint strategy with the EU for 'the boats' also incomplete. Brexiteers claim that the full benefit of Brexit has not yet been realized. The argument is equal that the full harm has also yet to be realized.

So time will tell and as you fear there may be trouble ahead. If Farage is elected I might be tempted to co-opt him as minister in charge of making Brexit work. He would of course refuse.

I suspect the size and makeup on any majority labour wouod get if they win may drive this. Blair achieved things like banning fox hunting based on the unexpected landslide

 

[Simster]

The LibDems pledge to return to the EU might prove to be a masterstroke in these electoral conditions - certainly in constituencies where they are in a fight with Labour for the seat. I just want the Conservatives out, and am really quite unimpressed with Labour in this campaign. I doubt I'm alone. Now finally the LibDems - fresh from Daisy Cooper's decent showing in the TV debate - are actually standing for something different. Sensible tax promises and a commitment to the EU - both absent from Labour.

In my constituency, Labour and LibDems got 10355 and 10320 votes, with the Tories way out in front on 28665. In a genuine 3 way fight for the seat, I felt I needed a reason to vote for anyone other than Labour. Now I've got one.

 

[Machiavelli]

The LibDems pledge to return to the EU might prove to be a masterstroke in these electoral conditions - certainly in constituencies where they are in a fight with Labour for the seat. I just want the Conservatives out, and am really quite unimpressed with Labour in this campaign. I doubt I'm alone. Now finally the LibDems - fresh from Daisy Cooper's decent showing in the TV debate - are actually standing for something different. Sensible tax promises and a commitment to the EU - both absent from Labour.

In my constituency, Labour and LibDems got 10355 and 10320 votes, with the Tories way out in front on 28665. In a genuine 3 way fight for the seat, I felt I needed a reason to vote for anyone other than Labour. Now I've got one.

Also their commitment to raising Capital Gains Tax might be proving influential (as Starmer has refused to rule out raising it). Unlike you, I don't want 'sensible' tax policies. I want those with the assets that have been hugely inflated over the past four decades to start giving back.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I want those with the assets that have been hugely inflated over the past four decades to start giving back.

Whilst I agree with this sentiment quite strongly, it has to be recognised that those mentioned will be the most savvy about avoiding such penalties.
If the theory of 'some is better than nowt' applies then fine, but the most switched on will have already, or be in the process of, moving such assets to places far beyond the grab of Rachel Reeves

 

[Machiavelli]

Whilst I agree with this sentiment quite strongly, it has to be recognised that those mentioned will be the most savvy about avoiding such penalties.
If the theory of 'some is better than nowt' applies then fine, but the most switched on will have already, or be in the process of, moving such assets to places far beyond the grab of Rachel Reeves

Yes, with you there, but there are certain assets that can't be moved that easily, eg houses. Speaking of which, council tax is long overdue a replacement (especially as those thresholds have been frozen since its inception 30+ years ago). The more intangible/liquid assets could be caught more easily if there was postnational (and, potentially, global) agreement on such things. While there are positive signs on this front, eg Brazil using its (current) role as head of the G20 to impose a wealth tax on billionaires (see below), the movement towards nationalism that has been a continual feature of the last decade or so will make this even more difficult to achieve.

Why are billionaires scared of Brazil’s plan to hit them with a global tax? Because it makes perfect sense | Larry Elliott

As the fortunes of the super-rich soar, a proposed annual levy of 2% could offer a corrective – and they will fight it tooth and nail, says the Guardian’s economics editor Larry Elliott

www.theguardian.com

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Where does the Reform party find these people..... ?

BBC News - Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments

Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments

Ian Gribbin says his grandparents were "Russian Jews fleeing persecution" and his comments were taken out of context.

www.bbc.com

 

[A1X]

When the comments first came to light, a Reform UK party spokesman suggested they were not endorsements but "arguing points in long distance debates".

Wow. Seriously…wow.

 

[A1X]

 

[Weststander]

Where does the Reform party find these people..... ?

BBC News - Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments

Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments

Ian Gribbin says his grandparents were "Russian Jews fleeing persecution" and his comments were taken out of context.

www.bbc.com

Disgusting comments from a vile person. Has racist Farage made any effort to replace him?

If not, I’d love Farage to be challenged about this at the next TV debate.

 

[penny's harmonica]

 

[nicko31]

I'm shocked

Reform UK candidate apologises over Hitler neutrality comments

Ian Gribbin says his grandparents were "Russian Jews fleeing persecution" and his comments were taken out of context.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bodian]

I suspect the size and makeup on any majority labour wouod get if they win may drive this. Blair achieved things like banning fox hunting based on the unexpected landslide

Banned fox hunting, banned smoking in indoor public places, brought in the right to roam and coastal path, and the minimum wage. All possible because of his large majority.

 

[A1X]

Disgusting comments from a vile person. Has racist Farage made any effort to replace him?

If not, I’d love Farage to be challenged about this at the next TV debate.

“So Nigel, how many of the other candidates your party has put up for election think Winston Churchill was wrong about Hitler?”

 

[Flounce]

Hmmm

 

[Springal]

I’ve always said with a general election the incumbent party should have to share the manifesto that they won with and how they performed

 

[Pinkie Brown]

expect this largely because they aren't a proper strucutured party, anyone willing to stump up a deposit can stand under the banner.

Other parties charge a fee to candidates but only after multiple checks and balances are complete. Reform like their predecessor Brexit Party have virtually none, thus as you suggest, any misfit can slip the net.

Farage and Tice appear to be running the same wheeze which earned them an estimated 300k in 2019. Back then potential candidates were charged £100 non refundable deposit to apply. Circa 3000 applied for the 550 seats the Brexit Party planned to contest. Many of the lucky 550 were then stiffed by Farage after he done a deal with Johnson not to contest tory held seats.
Ker-Ching, Farage and Tice trousered 300k with many candidates seething after being left heavily out of pocket, having spent much of their own cash on campaign expenses.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

We should all aspire to live life like a LibDem leader during a general election campaign