General Election 2017

[larus]

The difference is the turmoil in the Labour Party has been borne of a desire to make sure they had the right man.

The Tories couldn't wait to annoint May so much so that they completely forgot to actually see if she was at all cut out for the job. What a total **** up.

Well, if you think that the Parliamentary Labour Party were united behind Corbyn at any time before the election (or are united now), then I think you are deluding yourself. There may be less outspoken comments now due to the clever campaign to bribe the youth vote (IMO), but the moderates within Labour will never accept his politics. Christ, there was even talk about how to get rid of him or how many moderate Labour MP's may create a new party/join the LibDems post the election.

I'm not saying the Tories didn't f*ck up with TM, but don't play the "Labour did everything right" game.

 

[larus]

I don't think she will be here in 2 wks time. If she had appointed a chief negotiatior already the EU talks would not be the stumbling block to being allowed to hang on.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

The sooner she goes the better. Her political career is over now (as good as anyway). I've never warmed to her, even as a Tory voter, so I can see the way she will alienate floating voters and especially the young.

 

[spring hall convert]

Well, if you think that the Parliamentary Labour Party were united behind Corbyn at any time before the election (or are united now), then I think you are deluding yourself. There may be less outspoken comments now due to the clever campaign to bribe the youth vote (IMO), but the moderates within Labour will never accept his politics. Christ, there was even talk about how to get rid of him or how many moderate Labour MP's may create a new party/join the LibDems post the election.

I'm not saying the Tories didn't f*ck up with TM, but don't play the "Labour did everything right" game.

I'm not. I'm saying that the motivation to remove Corbyn if anything proves my point. Labour has been obsessed about whether they've got the right person. The Tories didn't give a shit whether they did.

 

[larus]

An important part of democracy is freedom of speech, so, I'll keep moaning about what I consider to be the worst decision this country has made post war, it may piss a few people off, I may be slagged ioff, I don't really care, I didn't want us to leave the EU, you did, your lot won, by a pretty slim majority, but, it doesn't mean I can't laugh at the ballsup May and her mates is going to make of it

I'm not saying you don't have the right to say you want to Remain. I do object to the opinion that it is somehow wrong to consult the population on such an important issue. This is what so many Reaminers seem to say. It was a f*ck up, etc.
The reality is, even with the might of most of the establishment behind them, the remain side lost as more people wanted out. I accept it was a slim majority, but it was still a vote to leave. One of the main concerns was free movement, so unless there is compromise from the EU (which I don't expect), I am not expecting to be part of the single market.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

If you want inciteful political analysis watch this.

 

[larus]

I'm not. I'm saying that the motivation to remove Corbyn if anything proves my point. Labour has been obsessed about whether they've got the right person. The Tories didn't give a shit whether they did.

It doesn't prove your point. It proves that the grass roots was swamped by 'new memebers' who wanted to keep the very left wing agenda. The accepted view on this is that these were not normal labour memeber, but momentum voters trying to hijack the party.

The fact that so many high profile MPs refused to be in the shadow cabinet and you were left with Diane Abbott as the shadow Home Secretary I think says it all about Labour unity. I'm not saying that the Tories have come out of the last 2-3 years smelling of roses, but don\'t pretend that Labour are any better.

Also, Labour still lost and any conjecture about "having momentum" is opinion. In my opinion, this result was purely because TM was so bad JC had a free run.

 

[lawros left foot]

I'm not saying you don't have the right to say you want to Remain. I do object to the opinion that it is somehow wrong to consult the population on such an important issue. This is what so many Reaminers seem to say. It was a f*ck up, etc.
The reality is, even with the might of most of the establishment behind them, the remain side lost as more people wanted out. I accept it was a slim majority, but it was still a vote to leave. One of the main concerns was free movement, so unless there is compromise from the EU (which I don't expect), I am not expecting to be part of the single market.

The whole referendum decision, whether we had one, not the result, was down to Dave wanting prevent a dozen or so, right wing Tory MPs, you know, the sort Major called bustards, from defecting to UKIP. He never thought he'd lose, and having given the bustards a sop, they wouldn't then tear his party apart. It was selfish, stupid, and spineless, and, alongside the pathetic remain campaign, he deserved everything that happened. Unfortunately, it's the rest of us who will pay the price.

 

[spring hall convert]

It doesn't prove your point. It proves that the grass roots was swamped by 'new memebers' who wanted to keep the very left wing agenda. The accepted view on this is that these were not normal labour memeber, but momentum voters trying to hijack the party.

The fact that so many high profile MPs refused to be in the shadow cabinet and you were left with Diane Abbott as the shadow Home Secretary I think says it all about Labour unity. I'm not saying that the Tories have come out of the last 2-3 years smelling of roses, but don\'t pretend that Labour are any better.

Also, Labour still lost and any conjecture about "having momentum" is opinion. In my opinion, this result was purely because TM was so bad JC had a free run.

Wrong again. Corbyn won the first leadership election if you discount the new votes. Owen Smith was no alternative in the second. The Tory Party had an entryist plot let the right of the Parliamentary Party into Government with no support whatsoever from the members, outside of Theresa May's inner circle in order to outUKIP UKIP. Perhaps you should have been keeping your eye on developments closer to home.

2015 - Corbyn can't win
2016 - Corbyn can't win
2017 - Corbyn is going to be humiliated

Labour have had an existential crisis that has done them significant harm since the 2015 election. This result and the positivity generated by the last 6 weeks is the perfect opportunity to put that behind them. The Tories have taken us out of the European Union against the will of their leadership and a significant proportion of their own support as well as a whole generation of new voters and have left us being likely in hock to a group of corrupt religious extremists to get a queen's speech through. There is no comparison, it is now the Tories you can't trust.

 

[spring hall convert]

The Tories will also have to come up with a decent policy program before the next election. This manifesto was awful and you can't rely on the right-wing press to smear your way to victory, you have fired all the ammunition now.

I'd advise maybe to get some young people involved in policy but am reminded that there aren't any.

 

[larus]

Wrong again. Corbyn won the first leadership election if you discount the new votes. Owen Smith was no alternative in the second. The Tory Party had an entryist plot let the right of the Parliamentary Party into Government with no support whatsoever from the members, outside of Theresa May's inner circle in order to outUKIP UKIP. Perhaps you should have been keeping your eye on developments closer to home.

2015 - Corbyn can't win
2016 - Corbyn can't win
2017 - Corbyn is going to be humiliated

Labour have had an existential crisis that has done them significant harm since the 2015 election. This result and the positivity generated by the last 6 weeks is the perfect opportunity to put that behind them. The Tories have taken us out of the European Union against the will of their leadership and a significant proportion of their own support as well as a whole generation of new voters and have left us being likely in hock to a group of corrupt religious extremists to get a queen's speech through. There is no comparison, it is now the Tories you can't trust.

Forget it - you are so blinkered it's incredible. In your eyes, JC is the new Messiah, the Labour Party is paradise on earth and Diane Abott is the re-incarnation of Sir Isaac Newton.

Giving the country a say on the relationship with the EU is democratic. Cameron recognised there was growing revolt/resentment about the EU so too it out of party politics. There were Labour/Tories on both sides and more were Reaminers but you still LOST, like you still LOST the election.

ANd when TM goes and a new Tory leader comes in, at the next election they won\'t run such a disastrous campaign and you will LOSE again.

 

[LlcoolJ]

The whole referendum decision, whether we had one, not the result, was down to Dave wanting prevent a dozen or so, right wing Tory MPs, you know, the sort Major called bustards, from defecting to UKIP. He never thought he'd lose, and having given the bustards a sop, they wouldn't then tear his party apart. It was selfish, stupid, and spineless, and, alongside the pathetic remain campaign, he deserved everything that happened. Unfortunately, it's the rest of us who will pay the price.

Well said.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Wrong again. Corbyn won the first leadership election if you discount the new votes. Owen Smith was no alternative in the second. The Tory Party had an entryist plot let the right of the Parliamentary Party into Government with no support whatsoever from the members, outside of Theresa May's inner circle in order to outUKIP UKIP. Perhaps you should have been keeping your eye on developments closer to home.

2015 - Corbyn can't win
2016 - Corbyn can't win
2017 - Corbyn is going to be humiliated

Labour have had an existential crisis that has done them significant harm since the 2015 election. This result and the positivity generated by the last 6 weeks is the perfect opportunity to put that behind them. The Tories have taken us out of the European Union against the will of their leadership and a significant proportion of their own support as well as a whole generation of new voters and have left us being likely in hock to a group of corrupt religious extremists to get a queen's speech through. There is no comparison, it is now the Tories you can't trust.

The Tories are the only credible mainstream party that fully respected the result of the referendum and committed to take us out of the EU after the result, suck it up and move on. Tory voters voted for stability and giving us a strong position for the negotiations despite the crappiness of their campaign. The Tory vote went up considerably .. other voters prioritsised different options including 'limiting' the size of the Tory majority (well done), or we want free stuff. Trust marxist far left extremists more than them ...

 

[spring hall convert]

Forget it - you are so blinkered it's incredible. In your eyes, JC is the new Messiah, the Labour Party is paradise on earth and Diane Abott is the re-incarnation of Sir Isaac Newton.

Giving the country a say on the relationship with the EU is democratic. Cameron recognised there was growing revolt/resentment about the EU so too it out of party politics. There were Labour/Tories on both sides and more were Reaminers but you still LOST, like you still LOST the election.

ANd when TM goes and a new Tory leader comes in, at the next election they won\'t run such a disastrous campaign and you will LOSE again.

And the Labour Party won't let you get away with thinking you can get rid of the leader and forget about it. Especially, if as seems extremely possible we are back at the ballot box in the next 6-12 months.

Corbyn's no messiah but he has done what he said he'd do - coalesce support and bring on a new generation of voters. If the Labour Party can avoid imploding again they are going to be all over this Government, whoever the leader is. And we know May in particular can't work with people (which she now has to,) she wilts under pressure (there's loads of it) and hates opposition so much she called an election because 9 Liberal Democrats were getting in her way.

 

[spring hall convert]

marxist

Have you read much Marx?

 

[Exile]

It doesn't prove your point. It proves that the grass roots was swamped by 'new memebers' who wanted to keep the very left wing agenda. The accepted view on this is that these were not normal labour memeber, but momentum voters trying to hijack the party.

The fact that so many high profile MPs refused to be in the shadow cabinet and you were left with Diane Abbott as the shadow Home Secretary I think says it all about Labour unity. I'm not saying that the Tories have come out of the last 2-3 years smelling of roses, but don\'t pretend that Labour are any better.

Also, Labour still lost and any conjecture about "having momentum" is opinion. In my opinion, this result was purely because TM was so bad JC had a free run.

Ironically (hilariously in fact) a lot of those sudden new members were Tory supporters who signed up (and boasted about it all over social media) to vote and keep the unelectable Corbyn in place, to assure the electoral destruction of the Labour Party.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Have you read much Marx?

No but John McDonnell has.

 

[Scotchegg]

The Tories are the only credible mainstream party that fully respected the result of the referendum and committed to take us out of the EU after the result, suck it up and move on. Tory voters voted for stability and giving us a strong position for the negotiations despite the crappiness of their campaign. The Tory vote went up considerably .. other voters prioritsised different options including 'limiting' the size of the Tory majority (well done), or we want free stuff. Trust marxist far left extremists more than them ...

Tories did nothing wrong chaps, not the best campaign, but it was all those pesky commies messing it up!

You sound delusional and extremely out of touch. Sorry.

Edit: fully admit to never having read marx but comfortable throwing about Marxism as an insult. Nice one

 

[spring hall convert]

No but John McDonnell has.

How do you know what Marxist is then?

He's definitely more popular with the kids than Milton Friedman.

The modern Labour Party is more Keynes than Marx anyway. It's just a word the right uses to scare people.

 

[neilbard]

Cameron is too blame for the shite we are all in now a complete and utter c**t.......

 

[Javeaseagull]

I have noticed that Diane Abbot gets quite a slating on the blogs. This lady was the first black female MP and maybe that is a problem for some? Her constituents, who are the only ones that matter, returned her to Parliament with over 45,000 votes, a majority of over 35,000. She is the Shadow Home Secretary and the actual Home Secretary had a majority of 346.
I feel sorry for Amber Rudd having to cover for the PM at short notice having recently lost her father. Nobody should be treated like that but also nobody should have to put up with the abuse that Diane Abbot gets, daily.