General Election 2017

[JC Footy Genius]

I agree - and lots of people in the economics world were slightly surprised by the IFS conclusions this time, for this reason - and yes, in so far as they haven't taken fully into account the kind of macro-impacts that Wren-Lewis talks about, then their analysis of the Tory manifesto would also be affected (but the error would be bigger in the case of the Labour manifesto, as the Labour policy approach relies more on stimulating investment spending through deficit financing.
I don't disagree with your criticism of economists either (and I am one), as the economics profession hasn't covered itself in glory in recent years. Nevertheless, there is a degree of economic illiteracy in the debate at the moment, and the fallacy, propagated massively in the Thatcher years, that you can (and should) apply the same principles of running a household or family budget, to running the economy of the country seems to be re-emerging (with all this stuff about there not being a 'magic money tree'). I know you won't like it, because it's in the Guardian, but this bloke (a Cambridge economist this time) is 'on the money' (sorry) as far as I'm concerned.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-money-british-voters-economy-britain-welfare

Economists probably serve many useful functions and they are well represented on NSC but their predictive powers re political-economic outcomes are generally woeful which makes me wonder why we even bother taking their predictions seriously. Differing Brexit negotiation outcomes would render their current predictions meaningless.

Completely agree the analogy of family finances to the economy is simplistic but is does strike a chord with voters. But it is a fact that Corbyn and his fellow travellers are proposing a seismic shift in policy direction with a huge increase in spending with highly dubious sources of reliable income. I have yet to hear a convincing argument how Corbyn/McDonnell could achieve this. I suspect the Labour manifesto was drawn up to promise all things to all people to shore up the Labour vote/avert disaster thanks to a p*ss poor Tory campaign it has gone beyond that.

 

[The Birdman]

The Tories tax plans are currently completely unknown, if you hadn't noticed.

Not like labours Garden Tax Corparation tax etc etc don't worry Diane Abbot will balance the books

 

[theonlymikey]

To criticise one policy without taking into consideration he other policy changes in a manifesto is ludicrous.

Let's say labour don't raise all the taxes needed from corporations tax increases. A simplistic view of this would be that labours policy has failed.

However also as part of their plans is to raise minimum wage to to £10 this will bring in more taxes from the lower income families, require less tax credit subsidies and give lower income families more spending power.

More spending power means more VAT taxation.

So to summarise:

- more income from corporation tax increases
- more income from lower income Taxes
- more income from high earners taxes
- more spending power means more income from VAT
- less working benefit subsidies needed.

It's basis economics. especially VAT.

How many people do you know in low income families who are avid savers storing there money away? The high earners are either more likely to store their money in savings accounts or to tax evade. More spend means a greater growing economy and in turn more profits to offset the corporation tax increases anyway.

Judge labour on their manifesto as a whole.

And the Corbyn pressing the button thing with the supposed white right wing middle aged men. Can I ask how many nuclear attacks they can draw experience from please?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

What about what Michal Fallon said when he said that the Tories were going to implement a tax system based on who you vote for:
"The only way they can be sure their taxes won't rise is to vote Conservative. We already know your tax will go up if you vote Labour on Thursday."

Befire you get your knickers in a twist, pay attention to what he said...there is no mention of if labour win, just who you vote for. So they must also be making voting non-confidential as well. How can anyone be for this kind of two tierd society is beyond me.

Weirdest post EVER?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

What about what Michal Fallon said when he said that the Tories were going to implement a tax system based on who you vote for:
"The only way they can be sure their taxes won't rise is to vote Conservative. We already know your tax will go up if you vote Labour on Thursday."

Befire you get your knickers in a twist, pay attention to what he said...there is no mention of if labour win, just who you vote for. So they must also be making voting non-confidential as well. How can anyone be for this kind of two tierd society is beyond me.

The second half of Fallon's statement is true. I can give you numerous examples where Shadow cabinet ministers and even their beloved leader are at odds with their manifesto's commitments.

My knickers are firmly in place, how anyone can vote for a terrorist sympathiser who is obviously unfit to lead the opposition (according to Labour Mp's) let alone the Government is beyond me.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Garden Tax

Oh do me a favour.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Now you are just spouting propaganda.

Which bit is untrue though (Minus the knicker wearing ?)

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

That is what he said. You can not deny that.

And you honestly believe the Tories have plans to charge Labour voters higher rates of tax?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

That is what Michael Fallon said.

Looking at your quote, don't you think there's a tiny chance that what he said was a little ambiguous? Fallon may be many things but I don't believe he'd have suggested that.

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

For us anti-Brexiters, nothing you didn't know, but Seahaven Staying In sent this out today:

Seahaven Staying In is a cross-party group open to all who believe that Seahaven (and the UK) is better off staying in the EU.

As a service to members and others who share the view Better In than Out, the Party Manifestos of the Brighton Kemptown Peacehaven, and Lewes Constituency candidates have been reviewed.

1) The Conservative Party is committed to Brexit - deal or no deal.

2) The Labour Party promises a Parliamentary vote on the outcome of the negotiations.

3) The Liberal Democrat Party promises a second referendum.

As none of the Parties commits to the immediate recall of the Article 50 submission, Seahaven Staying In could not wholeheartedly endorse any candidate(s). What is clear, is that one Party, the Tory Party offers no possibility of reflection or reconsideration, the two others do - by Parliament (Labour) or by referendum (Lib Dems). In Brighton Kemptown and Peacehaven, Lloyd RUSSELL-MOYLE (Labour) is the challenger to the Conservative Party and in Lewes Kelly-Marie BLUNDELL (Liberal Democrat) is the challenger.

Seahaven Staying In's objectives will be better served by a Lib Dem victory in Lewes and a Labour victory in Brighton Kemptown.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Why are some on the left so angry and aggressive.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4567270/Labour-anarchists-plot-burn-rob-Tory-homes.html

 

[CherryInHove]

7 opinion polls due this evening from 5pm ish, [MENTION=36]Titanic[/MENTION] will be in a FRENZY of excitement

First one in: https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/871024092174069760

CON: 43% (-2) LAB: 37% (+2) LDEM: 6% (-1) UKIP: 5% (-) GRN: 2% (-)

 

[Da Man Clay]

Why are some on the left so angry and aggressive.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4567270/Labour-anarchists-plot-burn-rob-Tory-homes.html

Quite. There is certainly no one on the right angry and aggressive either

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Quite. There is certainly no one on the right angry and aggressive either

Fine, these people don't like the Tories but why deface campaign boards.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The whole of the last paragraph...minus the knicker wearing.

"terrorist sympathiser who is obviously unfit to lead the opposition (according to Labour Mp's) let alone the Government is beyond me"

Well he went to a funeral commemorating/honouring IRA terrorists killed by the SAS and according to one significant member of the IRA and another politician, (a central player in the peace process) was a supporter/sympathiser with the IRA. A big majority of Labour MP's passed a vote of no confidence in Corbyn as Leader of Her Majesty's opposition.

 

[Grombleton]

Why are some on the left so angry and aggressive.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4567270/Labour-anarchists-plot-burn-rob-Tory-homes.html

Nothing like the most biased, right wing paper of them all as a source

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Oh come on. The guy is not stupid and is fully capable of giving a non-ambiguous concise statement about tax policy. If he does not mean what he says how are we to believe anything else he says?

It seems to me that when he says the only way to be sure taxes don't rise is voting Tory, that the Tories won't put tax up. What he means by " We already know your tax will go up if you vote Labour on Thursday." Is that the Labour party have pledged to raise taxes on higher earners. I believe 99% of people will look at it that way but perhaps you are right?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

When you use the phrase "according to" you are using propaganda.
Regarding the unfit part: he has overseen one of the biggest jumps in opinion polling before the election ever seen. That does not seem to indicate a man short on support.

When I use the phrase 'according to' I am Quoting sources that probably have more insight into the truth than you/me/anyone on NSC.

Your point about rising opinion poll support has no bearing on the validity of my previous statement which you challenged.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What about what Michal Fallon said when he said that the Tories were going to implement a tax system based on who you vote for:
"The only way they can be sure their taxes won't rise is to vote Conservative. We already know your tax will go up if you vote Labour on Thursday."

Befire you get your knickers in a twist, pay attention to what he said...there is no mention of if labour win, just who you vote for. So they must also be making voting non-confidential as well. How can anyone be for this kind of two tierd society is beyond me.

Perhaps a rather too literal take on language. We do need to be careful not to twist the words of any politician seeking to represent us whether they be JC, Michael Fallon or anyone else otherwise we descend into an American type electoral process.

 

[spring hall convert]

Nothing like the most biased, right wing paper of them all as a source [emoji38]ol:

Richard Desmond will be very upset you said that.