General Election 2017

[Silk]

I'd rather that than the Tories trying to take us back to the 1800's

This. The 1970s have a bad rep, but actually much was good. The unions had too much power, granted. But we desperately need many of the policies in this manifesto.

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[attila]

And you think the inner circle of Momentum give a **** if any of their voters lived or died tomorrow, they are a self serving bully boy elite group who will gladly tread on anyone in their way.

I know loads of people in Momentum and have done many gigs for them. All the ones I've met (including the 'inner circle who organise) have been caring, decent people who want a fairer society. Many of them are young people who have never been involved in politics before. Simple as that really. Bullshit stories in the Daily Mail, Sun etc mean nothing if you're actually out there doing stuff yourself and see what is really going on

 

[The Merry Prankster]

And you think the inner circle of Momentum give a **** if any of their voters lived or died tomorrow, they are a self serving bully boy elite group who will gladly tread on anyone in their way.

I too have been to a few Momentum events including their excellent one in Liverpool last year and agree with John. I think if you actually did your own reasearch you'd find them, despite their politics, to be positive, enthusiastic and concerncerned. I found them really refreshing in the dull, robotic modern political landscape.

 

[heathgate]

How is he "wasting his vote" Should he just vote for an immoral Tory party he doesn't agree with instead because it's the "sensible thing to do?" After all they are the "Strong and Stable" party that will sort out all the UK's problems!

Maybe he should just blindly voye Tory, whilst believing Labour are unelectable because the Billionaire/Zio owned & controlled mainstream media tell him so? God damn! when did the UK population become so dumbed down and as brainwashed as the U.S citizans?

I am fairly sure the core "inner ring" of the Tory party couldn't give a shit if many (if any of you) voting for them lived or died tomorrow. Infact they actualy get off watchign some of the poor suffer! I honestly believe Corbyn lives and dies for his morals and is the real deal.

You classing the poster on here voting Labour as a "wasted vote" just tells me how brainwashed you are! Yes, lets all vote for half human/ half cyborg T-9000 Theresa May and embrace her still undisclosed Tory manifesto/Brexit plan

**** me, what has happened to this country!

Slightly embarrassing post matey... it's the usual 'fascist' left typical of Corbyns New Old Labour, who cannot tolerate an alternate point of view, censorship and bigotry.

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[heathgate]

This. The 1970s have a bad rep, but actually much was good. The unions had too much power, granted. But we desperately need many of the policies in this manifesto.

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What was good then?.. other than the music and the Albion getting promoted.

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[beorhthelm]

Bullshit stories in the Daily Mail, Sun etc mean nothing if you're actually out there doing stuff yourself and see what is really going on

what about the stories from the left wing, from MPs and members? are you misreading "inner circle of Momentum" for all members of the movement? i read this week Carolyn Lucas hasnt been able to speak with Corbyn since he was leader and many MPs and journalists have reported they've been shunned, blocked by the people around him.

 

[attila]

what about the stories from the left wing, from MPs and members? are you misreading "inner circle of Momentum" for all members of the movement? i read this week Carolyn Lucas hasnt been able to speak with Corbyn since he was leader and many MPs and journalists have reported they've been shunned, blocked by the people around him.

This may be true. But it won't be Momentum doing that: Momentum is a separate organisation, although there are currently moves to make Labour membership compulsory. It will be Corbyn's inner circle within the Labour Party. Some of them are quite aloof! There is a ludicrous amount of tribalism there: I find Corbyn's rejection of a progressive alliance absolutely contemptible. Tribalism is for football, it has no place in politics: it's people's lives we're talking about here, and the Left should be united. It is a crime against democracy for one party to achieve untrammeled power with 38% of the vote. Caroline is spot on: the Greens' standing down in Kemptown is great and gives us an excellent chance of winning the seat. Shame Labour are insisting on standing against her in Pavilion.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This may be true. But it won't be Momentum doing that: Momentum is a separate organisation, although there are currently moves to make Labour membership compulsory. It will be Corbyn's inner circle within the Labour Party. Some of them are quite aloof! There is a ludicrous amount of tribalism there: I find Corbyn's rejection of a progressive alliance absolutely contemptible. Tribalism is for football, it has no place in politics: it's people's lives we're talking about here, and the Left should be united. It is a crime against democracy for one party to achieve untrammeled power with 38% of the vote. Caroline is spot on: the Greens' standing down in Kemptown is great and gives us an excellent chance of winning the seat. Shame Labour are insisting on standing against her in Pavilion.

Then why not go one step further and dump the Reds/left progressive Blues/right Evil nonsense?

Labour usually needed a smaller share of the vote to achieve untrammelled power but I expect the Tories will get nearer 50% this time for numerous reasons .. one being the shambolic state of the official opposition.

 

[Chicken Run]

I too have been to a few Momentum events including their excellent one in Liverpool last year and agree with John. I think if you actually did your own reasearch you'd find them, despite their politics, to be positive, enthusiastic and concerncerned. I found them really refreshing in the dull, robotic modern political landscape.

It won't take me long to find some footage showing the "aggressive" side of Momentum, sinister is just one word that I would use to describe them, many of their members are nasty individuals.

 

[Seagull kimchi]

You might also ask the Tories what happened to all that North Sea oil money as well.

Something I've never really understood is how all the privatisation idea worked.

I assumed by 'selling off' publicly owned industries the Tory governments must have raised a bunch of money - what did they spend that on? Now I can appreciate that some of these national industries were running at great losses under the government, so privatisation effectively saved them from these continual losses - but again where did these savings go? Something about subsidies? - which just seemed like the government was still underwriting the private (MP buddy owned) companies who could then freely pay their execs crazy salaries/bonuses.

Now if, as was suggested, the privatisation model was about increasing efficiency/streamlining/getting expertise in the field/making these industries more customer focused/cheaper/better run/competitive then that's a fair argument......

I was quite young when this all started, and I know nothing of politics or economics so I'd welcome a lesson from some more clued up NSCers - but to me as a 16 year old it all seemed like the biggest scam going, and nobody asked what happened to the money this accrued/saved the Tory administrations. Over the decades it happened again and again even though everyone seemed to think services deteriorated and prices increased.

 

[GT49er]

Something I've never really understood is how all the privatisation idea worked.

I assumed by 'selling off' publicly owned industries the Tory governments must have raised a bunch of money - what did they spend that on? Now I can appreciate that some of these national industries were running at great losses under the government, so privatisation effectively saved them from these continual losses - but again where did these savings go? Something about subsidies? - which just seemed like the government was still underwriting the private (MP buddy owned) companies who could then freely pay their execs crazy salaries/bonuses.

Now if, as was suggested, the privatisation model was about increasing efficiency/streamlining/getting expertise in the field/making these industries more customer focused/cheaper/better run/competitive then that's a fair argument......

I was quite young when this all started, and I know nothing of politics or economics so I'd welcome a lesson from some more clued up NSCers - but to me as a 16 year old it all seemed like the biggest scam going, and nobody asked what happened to the money this accrued/saved the Tory administrations. Over the decades it happened again and again even though everyone seemed to think services deteriorated and prices increased.

Don't think lessons are needed - you seem to have grasped the idea (that it's just like flogging off the family silver for a bit of ready cash) perfectly well.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Don't think lessons are needed - you seem to have grasped the idea (that it's just like flogging off the family silver for a bit of ready cash) perfectly well.

But most of the "silver" was in fact a rusty piece of shite, costing the country heaps of money to keep chipping the rust off.

 

[Buzzer]

Tribalism is for football, it has no place in politics:

You're joking right? Left-wing politics in the UK is ALL about tribalism.

 

[jakarta]

You're joking right? Left-wing politics in the UK is ALL about tribalism.

Only carrying on in a great historical tradition...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4

 

[Buzzer]

Only carrying on in a great historical tradition...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4

Spot on. Their language too. Never kissed a Tory, Smash the government, Use of the words fight/attack/destroy when describing opposition to a political stance ...Tell me what the concept of class war is if it isn't ultimately tribal?

I think the only attribute that left-wing politics doesn't have is self-awareness.

 

[Seagull kimchi]

But most of the "silver" was in fact a rusty piece of shite, costing the country heaps of money to keep chipping the rust off.

That's what I thought when I said that the nationalised industries were running at huge losses....so by off loading them these losses were eliminated freeing up money to spend...where? If our taxes paid to subsides national industry loss - why didn't we get a big tax reduction when they were sold off? Like I said I know nothing about economics but it just doesn't add up to me?!?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Back to the manifesto.

Tuition Fees, why should an 18 year old, who has decided for whatever reason not to go to University, (maybe because they aren't able, maybe they don't want to) and therefore goes to work and pays taxes, pay the tuition fees of a middle class kid who will no doubt earn a lot more over his working life than said 18 year old?

Tuition Fees, have not put kids off going to university. They will benefit financially long term, and they IMO should pay their fees.

 

[Seagull kimchi]

Back to the manifesto.

Tuition Fees, why should an 18 year old, who has decided for whatever reason not to go to University, (maybe because they aren't able, maybe they don't want to) and therefore goes to work and pays taxes, pay the tuition fees of a middle class kid who will no doubt earn a lot more over his working life than said 18 year old?

Tuition Fees, have not put kids off going to university. They will benefit financially long term, and they IMO should pay their fees.

That's a good point - but maybe the 18 year old who you said isn't able to (for financial reasons alone) will then be able to because of no fees - opportunity and having the choice for those less well off can't be a bad idea. I think the idea is to give those who aren't middle class a chance to get a degree.

 

[Buzzer]

That's a good point - but maybe the 18 year old who you said isn't able to (for financial reasons alone) will then be able to because of no fees - opportunity and having the choice for those less well off can't be a bad idea.

Charging UK students fees for a first degree is just wrong IMHO. I just don't like the idea that we saddle young people with tens of thousands of pounds of debt right at the beginning of their adult lives. I understand that they will only pay for it if and when they earn enough but in which case make it free and they will pay for it anyway through their taxes later on in life. Yes, I understand that not everyone goes to uni who pays taxes but this is also true of people who don't use NHS services much or ever claim benefits or use museums or ever need the Fire Service or go to the opera or a hundred other things that we pay for communally.

Subjects that don't have high financial benefit do contribute in other ways. It enriches our culture. What doesn't are all the worthless, silly degrees invented over the last few years to cater for people who really shouldn't have gone to university. I have yet to hear a decent argument for why the old vocational institutes and polytechnics were so bad and why we needed to get so many young people into universities.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

It won't take me long to find some footage showing the "aggressive" side of Momentum, sinister is just one word that I would use to describe them, many of their members are nasty individuals.

You rather missed the point of my suggestion that, if you're really interested, you do your own research. If all you want is for your prejudices to be confirmed then, by all means, rely on the misrepresentation of others.