General Election 2017

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Corbyn offering to form a government was meant to signal that he and labour are ready and willing. It was not a 'power grab' (the person who claimed that is guilty of all the thing Biggully was accusing the left (above) - spite against labour etc). There is only one way to 'grab' power in this country, and that is to be elected. I loathed Thatcher but I would never accue her of 'grabbing' power - that would be pathetic.

At the moment there is little point attacking labour, other than to scaremonger before the inevitable election that will come later this year. Labour have been out of power for 7 (SEVEN) years. The state of the UK, it's three fold increase in national debt, the chaos over Brexit, and the (badly) hung parliament are all features of the conservative watch. Life is not all bad (certainly for me, but my house is paid for) and I would not pretend the tories have done nothing but bad. But in terms of where we are now, they are the worst government of all time, and no amount of lashing out at 'IRA Corbyn' and 'Islamist terrorist Khan' etc will change that

Fact.

Next.......

 

[ManOfSussex]

While the Tories have messed up the election, the position we're now in is due to our democracy, not because of the Tories. China wouldn't be in the mess we're in, maybe you'd prefer to not have a vote? Or, more likely, you'd like the vote but you just want everyone to vote the same as you?

This all stems back from last June - The Tories and their infighting over Europe. Here we are now -the messy aftermath after General Election called for the benefit of The Tories that's backfired spectacularly and compared to a 100+ Conservative majority that some were hoping for prior to the election, I'm actually delighted at the result and the chickens coming home to roost for May and co.

You're right, it is democracy, and people didn't vote the right way on Thursday for The Tories.

 

[Triggaaar]

Fed up with all these MPs coming up and saying May shouldn't go, when everyone knows they're choosing her successor behind the scenes. This is one of the reasons people despise politicians.

It's no different than the rest of life. "We give our fill support to the manager" = manager gone within a week.

It's easy to laugh at, but it's how it has to work. You have to say people have your full backing, until they go. There's no point having a leader (or manager etc) and saying 'well, we're not impressed, they might have to go, but maybe they can stay'.

 

[Triggaaar]

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell has told ITV's Robert Peston that any form of relationship between the Conservative Party and the DUP - to bolster a minority Conservative government - was "bound to be inherently unstable".

"I cannot see the relationship with the DUP holding together," he said.

Asked if the Labour Party was interested in forming its own coalition, he insisted: "No deals, no coalitions."

This is our manifesto, this is what we want to implement. The electorate don't want backroom deals. They want to vote for a party and they want [to see] that party in government."

-----------------------

Hopefully the above, particularly the bold bit, indicates the end of Labour's "We can still govern [from our position of fewest seats and election losers]".

So what did he suggest happens next?

 

[peterward]

It wasn't clear.

I'm a leaver and I don't agree with that point. People had different reasons for voting leave.

Given that 48% voted to remain, the majority of people would prefer soft Brexit to hard.

Totally agree [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] I was a leaver as I dont like the erosion of sovereignty or democracy and i dont want to end up in a United States of Europe were the ECB will eventually demand all adopt the euro and the will set interest rates that similar to Greece will hamstrung countries abilities to use tools like quantative easing and setting of interest rates to get out of financial holes.

I cant stand and was never an anti immigrant UKIP little englander simpleton, it seems obvious that based on the result of 52-48 their needs to be consideration of both sides views, I think in the interim at least, a norway style deal, that repatriates powers to the UK but allows access to the single market and freedom of movement is the next logical step, personally I want out of the customs union to allow trade deals with the rest of the world (who make up more than 60% of our current trade), its folly to tie ourselves to the customs union and prevent trade deals, but where the country is now and with the parliament as it is, it seems virtually impossible to get through the required laws to ensure this, there's enough Tory rebels alone to stop it. The game has changed and hard/pure Brexit seems unachievable.

To carry the country any deal must be a compromise to both sides, and Norway EEC membership feels like the best alternative for the medium term (next ten years at least).

 

[Questions]

Remember - no negotiating today between The Conservative and Unionist Party and The Democratic Unionist Party - The latter don't do such things on Sundays.

Is the Flat Earth theory back on the DUP's agenda again now ?

 

[Triggaaar]

This all stems back from last June - The Tories and their infighting over Europe.

All big parties have infighting, because the members don't all have the same view. That's part of our democracy and to be expected. There has been far more infighting within Labour, I'm not sure what your point is.

Here we are now -the messy aftermath after General Election called for the benefit of The Tories that's backfired spectacularly and compared to a 100+ Conservative majority that some were hoping for prior to the election, I'm actually delighted at the result and the chickens coming home to roost for May and co.

You're delighted, so what's the problem?

You're right, it is democracy, and people didn't vote the right way on Thursday for The Tories.

What?

 

[ManOfSussex]

Is the Flat Earth theory back on the DUP's agenda again now ?

It's possibly after the banning of people walking to the next village after Church on Sunday one, maybe.

Bonfire processions, Jack In The Green - I'm looking forward to seeing Amber Rudd on an Orange March in Hastings next.

 

[peterward]

This all stems back from last June - The Tories and their infighting over Europe. Here we are now -the messy aftermath after General Election called for the benefit of The Tories that's backfired spectacularly and compared to a 100+ Conservative majority that some were hoping for prior to the election, I'm actually delighted at the result and the chickens coming home to roost for May and co.

You're right, it is democracy, and people didn't vote the right way on Thursday for The Tories.

It was a combination of Corbyn enticing people with fake giveaway promises he could never keep and a disastrous campaign and manifesto by May, it still resulted in an almost 60 seat advantage to the Conservatives.

May is a dead duck, both labour and the Conservatives know where power lies, Corbyn knows his best chance ever is to try and seize on the present chaos, the Conservatives know that another GE or leadership election now is the worst scenario, and both will go all out to to try and ensure their preferred outcome.

My hunch is the tories will get the queens speech through, use the summer recess to line up all their ducks, go for a new leader and then call a GE when the public has had more time to assess Corbyns past and plans, I maybe wrong but I really believe this is Corbyns high water mark on the back of a disastrous may campaign.... to claim it as a victory is absurd, it was simply a better failure than predicted on the back of an open goal.

 

[lawros left foot]

And surely, as that is the will of the majority, it's right.

There was a referendum - choice made to Leave the EU.
There was a General Election. Result Tories 318 MPs, Labour 262 MPs. Labout LOST.

The delusion Corbyn/McDonald is incredible. They are asking for the Tories to stand aside and let them form a government. The maths don't add up. In effect, there are 642 MPs (excluding Sinn Fein and the speaker), so to get a majority one side needs 322 votes. The DUP would never support Labour (Corbyn/McDonald), so there will always be 328 against Labour. Then again, maths obviously isn't McDonalds strong point.

You do realise that if the Cons can't cobble together their shabby little deal with the DUP, then under parliamentary rules the next largest party would be asked to form the next Government? Before you say that is unlikely, in 1974, one of only 3 times we've had a hung Parliament, Heath was unable to form a government, even though the Tories were the biggest party, I think actually, he refused, so Wilson was asked, he accepted and Labour became a minority Government.
So, to say Labour are delusional is wrong, Labour are preparing for the possibility that the Tories can't form a Government, as the Tories would do if the roles were reversed.
As you say though the maths don't add up, and I imagine the first thing a Labour government would do, is have a vote to have another General Election, something the Tories are trying their utmost to avoid.

 

[Questions]

Totally agree [MENTION=4019]Triggaaar[/MENTION] I was a leaver as I dont like the erosion of sovereignty or democracy and i dont want to end up in a United States of Europe were the ECB will eventually demand all adopt the euro and the will set interest rates that similar to Greece will hamstrung countries abilities to use tools like quantative easing and setting of interest rates to get out of financial holes.

I cant stand and was never an anti immigrant UKIP little englander simpleton, it seems obvious that based on the result of 52-48 their needs to be consideration of both sides views, I think in the interim at least, a norway style deal, that repatriates powers to the UK but allows access to the single market and freedom of movement is the next logical step, personally I want out of the customs union to allow trade deals with the rest of the world (who make up more than 60% of our current trade), its folly to tie ourselves to the customs union and prevent trade deals, but where the country is now and with the parliament as it is, it seems virtually impossible to get through the required laws to ensure this, there's enough Tory rebels alone to stop it. The game has changed and hard/pure Brexit seems unachievable.

To carry the country any deal must be a compromise to both sides, and Norway EEC membership feels like the best alternative for the medium term (next ten years at least).

Had Cameron appeased the immigration worriers in his negotiations I don't think The Brexit vote would have been so strong. I agree though that the Norway option seems the most likely if this alliance manages to hold together. I can't see a challenge to May just yet because surely it's a poisoned chalice now . As for another election..... don't think Boris as leader would fancy that.

 

[peterward]

There is one massive benefit to this election, and that is the potential end of Indyref2 in Scotland for the forseeable future. Sturgeons government has failed in many of its domestic policy agendas, and she has had her wings well and truly clipped by the brilliant Ruth Davidson. All unionists should tip their hat to Ruth

 

[larus]

It wasn't clear.

I'm a leaver and I don't agree with that point. People had different reasons for voting leave.

Given that 48% voted to remain, the majority of people would prefer soft Brexit to hard.

I think it was - the immigration issue was debated quite clearly IMO. You may see it differently, but to me, the issue of Free Movement was a central one to the leave campaign. The discussion relating to an Australian style of immigration was discussed in the TV debates for example.

Ideally, we will keep open trade between the EU and UK, but that's it. However, this is something unpalatable to the EU, so, unless there are big compromises, I struggle to see an easy solution.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It was a combination of Corbyn enticing people with fake giveaway promises he could never keep and a disastrous campaign and manifesto by May, it still resulted in an almost 60 seat advantage to the Conservatives.

May is a dead duck, both labour and the Conservatives know where power lies, Corbyn knows his best chance ever is to try and seize on the present chaos, the Conservatives know that another GE or leadership election now is the worst scenario, and both will go all out to to try and ensure their preferred outcome.

My hunch is the tories will get the queens speech through, use the summer recess to line up all their ducks, go for a new leader and then call a GE when the public has had more time to assess Corbyns past and plans, I maybe wrong but I really believe this is Corbyns high water mark on the back of a disastrous may campaign.... to claim it as a victory is absurd, it was simply a better failure than predicted on the back of an open goal.

I can't disagree with that. You're right in a lot depends on how Corbyn's popularity grows or falls from here. This General Election has also created a lot of marginal seats for next time too, such as mine. Interesting times, if nothing else!

 

[Ernest]

Still no sign of the DUP deal being agreed despite what the Tories said last night, not sure what the time scale they have to push it through considering their rhetoric of the Brexit talks starting up

 

[Don Quixote]

My hunch is the tories will get the queens speech through, use the summer recess to line up all their ducks, go for a new leader and then call a GE when the public has had more time to assess Corbyns past and plans, I maybe wrong but I really believe this is Corbyns high water mark on the back of a disastrous may campaign.... to claim it as a victory is absurd, it was simply a better failure than predicted on the back of an open goal.

I think it was a victory for Corbyn himself after how unpopular he seemed to be only a few months ago. It wasn't really a victory for Labour, since they didn't win a majority, but it did show that Labour are not dead and can form a government in the near future. It was the first time they'd won seats in a long time, after all. And they won a lot of seats in England, in places they really shouldn't have won.

I don't think Corbyn is popular enough to become PM and I think if there's an election soon the result will be the same sort of thing. If the Tories cling on for five years in a minority government, Labour with a new leader will most likely manage a majority.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Still no sign of the DUP deal being agreed despite what the Tories said last night, not sure what the time scale they have to push it through considering their rhetoric of the Brexit talks starting up

The DUP don't work on Sunday's Ernest.

 

[lawros left foot]

Still no sign of the DUP deal being agreed despite what the Tories said last night, not sure what the time scale they have to push it through considering their rhetoric of the Brexit talks starting up

The DUP don't work on a Sunday, there will be nothing until tomorrow,at the earliest

 

[Questions]

Back in the late 70s Corbyn was running around his council empire in London encouraging the unions to strike.Bins were not emptied for weeks,the dead were not buried and were placed in any freezers of a size suitable.Some of us remember that and as such his kind for better or worse left us with Thatcher.
Just what is the countries debt at the moment,1.7 trillion pounds or so,going up still though less quickly than in the Blair/Brown years.The thought of something for nothing is a vote winner,well other than the fact that it didn't win but should he win in the future then the economic problems that Greece has will pall into insignificance
Yup bring on a Corbyn government.Remember someone will have to pay and those youngsters who think that Corbyn is a god may well look at him in years to come as a devil incarnate.

The miners had every right to strike in the 70's with the conditions and wage restraints that were implemented. My early working life - or lack of it because of unemployment - was under Thatcher. What a great time that was trying to get on in life. Because working men wouldn't concede to Heath, Thatcher sought revenge in the most spiteful of manners. Those days shaped my political views. It was the behaviour of Heath and Thatcher that turned me to the left of centre.

 

[larus]

You do realise that if the Cons can't cobble together their shabby little deal with the DUP, then under parliamentary rules the next largest party would be asked to form the next Government? Before you say that is unlikely, in 1974, one of only 3 times we've had a hung Parliament, Heath was unable to form a government, even though the Tories were the biggest party, I think actually, he refused, so Wilson was asked, he accepted and Labour became a minority Government.
So, to say Labour are delusional is wrong, Labour are preparing for the possibility that the Tories can't form a Government, as the Tories would do if the roles were reversed.
As you say though the maths don't add up, and I imagine the first thing a Labour government would do, is have a vote to have another General Election, something the Tories are trying their utmost to avoid.

It comes down to can a party get the queens speech through parliament. Now, the Tories may say to the DUP we don't want any agreement, just get us through the queens speech, otherwise, the risk to the DUP is another election and the outside risk of a Labour government with Corbyn. That will focus their minds.

Is it ideal - no. But I don't think the Tories will allow too much influence from the DUP as they only have 10 seats.

Look, however anyone spins this from their own 'bias' viewpoint, we're in a bad place for the country, as the BREXIT talks need to start ASAP. TM f*cked up and I want her gone. However, I dread the impact to our economy if Corbyn/McDonald got anywhere near power,