General Election 2017

[NooBHA]

I really don't get all of this euphoria from the Labour voters.

They have 261 MPs.
Tories 318 MPs.

Lots of reporting that the youth vote were heavily influenced to vote by the 'remove tuition fees' policy. So, is this just another example of people voting for self-interest? I know the usual suspects will say differently, but this is not an unreasonable assumption to make as to why there was a sudden surge in the votes from young people.

"Hey, mr/miss student, do you want someone else to pay our £27k university fees. If so, give me your vote".

No, that really couldn't be the reason.

Oh, BTW, I think that £9k p.a. is extortionate and morally wrong. I do feel as though a reasonable figure is OK, say £3k p.a.

YES of course that's correct

That's just means that you have 318 Constituencies full of self serving wealthy people looking out for themselves and afraid to share their wealth to help the less well off and only 261 Constituencies with young poor students looking for a decent start to their careers and working lives.

Only when we reverse those numbers will we become a more caring society.

 

[Megazone]

One day, Humanity will evolve to figure out a peaceful, mature and happy way for human life to exist on earth. So far, we haven't got close. We are still at the bickering and lying stage. Grown men and women behaving like they know it all, sadly, is as good as it gets right now.

The worst thing about it, look at how many users on here are now pinching and scratching since the results. Just because politicians act like social brain drains who have the life story of a cashew nut, doesn't mean we all have to copy them.

Same old crap time and time again. Can't wait for something new.

 

[Colossal Squid]

Who are you addressing here exactly?

It wasn't a swipe at you if that's what you're asking.

But there are still some quite bitter sounding posts on this thread whinging about all the bloody students in Brighton somehow radically altering the results here, and suggesting that progressives should be more upset than Tories and Brexiteers after this result.

It's hogwash. Blaming students as if they've formed some sort of tactical alliance to skew the polling is ludicrous. One of the reasons this city is so great is its long tradition of tolerance, acceptance and liberty. This attracts people who share these socially progressive values and whilst, yes, that does include students, it also attracts other demographics.

It was clear even before the nationwide swing became apparent that the unpopular Tory MP in Kemptown defending a very slim majority was very unlikely to keep his seat, particularly with the Greens standing aside to rally behind the Labour candidate. You'd also have found odds of about 1/20 on Caroline Lucas keeping her seat so betting against that would have just been easy money for the bookies.

If people want to whine that their preferred candidate didn't make it then fine but the huge majorities enjoyed by the three progressive party MPs in the city suggest that collectively the city has made its choice abundantly clear and there's absolutely zero ambiguity. We don't want Tories here.

If it makes it easier to swallow blaming it on "lefty giveaways" like the popular pledge to invest in the nation's future by abolishing tuition fees then go ahead and bury your head in the sand. But you cannot argue with the numbers, and those tell us the times of appetite for regressive, miserablist austerity politics may very well be over.

The lies have been peddled for too long and there's just no supporting evidence that the people are getting anything like a fair deal.

After the 2010 election and the EU referendum both threw up disappointing results to us progressives, to finally have an electoral surprise suggesting things maybe aren't all as bleak as they had perhaps seemed before is a nice chink of light in an uncertain time.

This isn't a victory for the left just like it isn't the end of the right. It's just a result that finally offers more hope than defeatism. And the mood in a sunny and cheery Brighton today suggests that maybe, just maybe, this could hint at a future where we do look to progress society for the better. And I've waited a long time for that hope. Let us enjoy it eh?

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[turienzo's lovechild]

I really don't get all of this euphoria from the Labour voters.

They have 261 MPs.
Tories 318 MPs.

the tories called this election under no pressure whatsoever because they thought they'd steamroll Labour and increase their majority.

They've lost their majority and have had to enter into an unstable coalition with a bunch of nut jobs which probably won't last long. This is a huge **** up by the tories (well, May) and a huge, much needed shot in the arm for Labour. Why wouldn't we be happy about it?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If tory's do stay in power Ruth Davidson must be in with a shout, exemplary work she is doing across the border.

I don't agree with her remain stance but will have to go with it. She seems like the real deal. Smart lady.

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She has tweeted this earlier:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ruthdavidsonmsp/status/873174533427142656

I'm not sure she is a fan!

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I really don't get all of this euphoria from the Labour voters.

They have 261 MPs.
Tories 318 MPs.

Lots of reporting that the youth vote were heavily influenced to vote by the 'remove tuition fees' policy. So, is this just another example of people voting for self-interest? I know the usual suspects will say differently, but this is not an unreasonable assumption to make as to why there was a sudden surge in the votes from young people.

"Hey, mr/miss student, do you want someone else to pay our £27k university fees. If so, give me your vote".

No, that really couldn't be the reason.

Oh, BTW, I think that £9k p.a. is extortionate and morally wrong. I do feel as though a reasonable figure is OK, say £3k p.a.

I agree, but at least they got involved and I think it may be a bit more than just student fees, I think they did not like what their future holds with Brexit and housing etc. They also care about homelessness and stuff like that.
Also regarding Labour, people seem to forget that they were at war with each other before the election.
Are they suddenly going to unite behind Corbyn or is it going to continue next week.
Potential leaders will now see it as a decent place to be now, and it could get nasty, I can't see them all suddenly changing their tune as a united party.
In fact, we could have both sides of the commons at war with each other.

Just seen Mays cabinet, Rudd, Johnson, Davies and Fallon, no change. That woman has just stuck up 2 fingers to the country as if nothing happened last night.

 

[East Preston Gull]

Chukka and the Blairrites sucking up to Corbyn is cringy and the lack of vocal support for Tess from any cabinet minister is telling.

Politicians are shits really aren't they.

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[larus]

YES of course that's correct

That's just means that you have 318 Constituencies full of self serving wealthy people looking out for themselves and afraid to share their wealth to help the less well off and only 261 Constituencies with young poor students looking for a decent start to their careers and working lives.

Only when we reverse those numbers will we become a more caring society.

Wow, so someone who has a different view as to what is the best way to run the country, to generate wealth to be able to fund the public services is selfish because they happen to disagree with the Labour message.

This is the same Labour Party where the leader is not wanted by the MPs.

Opposition is easy as you never need to make tough decisions and compromise. It can all be milk & honey and young virgins on request for everyone. .

 

[Gwylan]

If tory's do stay in power Ruth Davidson must be in with a shout, exemplary work she is doing across the border.

She's not an MP. A Tory would have to resign and she'd have to win the by election.

If there is a leadership election, there'd be no time for that to happen

 

[Bold Seagull]

Chukka and the Blairrites sucking up to Corbyn is cringy and the lack of vocal support for Tess from any cabinet minister is telling.

Politicians are shits really aren't they.

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You're right, where are the senior Tories fronting up to this? Davis, Johnson, Fallon, Hammond Happy to send out Rudd to a debate 2 days after her Dad dies, but can't give the public anything in comment on an election they called!? Absolute bottle-jobs.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

I struggle how people think that living within your means is a bad thing. I also struggle with the entitlement culture. The government doesn't have any money - all of it's expenditure comes from taking money from other taxpayers/companies.

I left home at 19 with no help from family and have been self-sufficient. I went back to college at 23 and re-trained, with a little government help. Since then I have never claimed anything, not have I ever expected to have something for nothing. I believe that we are responsible for our own lives and the welfare state is there to look after those that can't look after themselves or fall on hard times. And of course, the NHS and education (up the college level) should be free and of a high standard. However, the demographics of the country are changing, and this is something we need to be honest about.

It's about getting the balance right and they haven't.
I get austerity but not when the 5th largest economy with a strong (apparently) economy increases child poverty in this country along with under funding our kids education.
The cuts to councils had put in jeopardy the services for kids in care, fostering and adoption.
Call me an old softy but you just cannot penalise children for the failings of politicians and bankers.
How could I vote for a party that has allowed that to happen?

 

[Machiavelli]

No. All I'm saying is that most of the polls at the end (note: not the exit poll) were clearly wrong, so there's a decent chance the polls at the beginning were too. What was the final difference at the ballot box - 4% or so? So, maybe the opening differential was more like 14%, not 22%. There's no way of knowing of course, and I think you'll struggle to find anyone who'll suggest that the Labour campaign wasn't streets ahead of the Conservatives.

Think it shows that opinion polls are in big problem, as they're a terribly blunt instrument, indicated by the sheer range they threw up in the lead-up to this election, and when compared to the size, scope, subtlety and accuracy of the exit polls.
Op polls had a bad election in 2015 and shifted their methodology to take account of the shy Tory effect and seem to have over-compensated, but even that indicates that they can't account for the complexity involved in a 650 constituency, multi-party FPTP system in a time where the political tectonic plates are shifting.

 

[NooBHA]

Wow, so someone who has a different view as to what is the best way to run the country, to generate wealth to be able to fund the public services is selfish because they happen to disagree with the Labour message.

This is the same Labour Party where the leader is not wanted by the MPs.

Opposition is easy as you never need to make tough decisions and compromise. It can all be milk & honey and young virgins on request for everyone. .

Your original post hinted that Labour only increased their votes because of young students wanted something for nothing.

Core Conservative voters like the elderly are bought over just as readily and I don't even want to start on the large businesses who fear Jeremy Corbyn because he will increase Corporation Taxes in due course to pay for his measures and tax the rich earners at 50% tax.

Why shouldn't the large businesses pay for the Education of the Youth. After all, they are the ones who ''cherry pick'' them straight after they graduate to earn them their healthy profits year after year.

In fact I would go as far as to say that what should be done is that those companies who pick up those students on the cheap should directly pay the tuition fees back on behalf of those students

 

[larus]

I agree, but at least they got involved and I think it may be a bit more than just student fees, I think they did not like what their future holds with Brexit and housing etc. They also care about homelessness and stuff like that.
Also regarding Labour, people seem to forget that they were at war with each other before the election.
Are they suddenly going to unite behind Corbyn or is it going to continue next week.
Potential leaders will now see it as a decent place to be now, and it could get nasty, I can't see them all suddenly changing their tune as a united party.
In fact, we could have both sides of the commons at war with each other.

Just seen Mays cabinet, Rudd, Johnson, Davies and Fallon, no change. That woman has just stuck up 2 fingers to the country as if nothing happened last night.

Don't you see the contradiction in part of your argument. You say about the Brexit vote and then you say about housing. One of the major problems we have encountered is the huge increase in th population. The knock-on effect to this is they all need somewhere to live, so they demand on housing goes up. Supply/demand -> house prices increases.

I agree that house prices are criminal. I think this is a vile transfer of wealth from the young to the old, so I can see the anger of the youth. However, the only solution to this is a vast increase in building (which requires land), yet many of the youth will be 'green' and will object to building on 'green-land'. There isn't the brown field sites available to meet the demand.

Like all of these things, if you take the vitriol out of it and you got most sensible posters on here discussing what we want from the government, I bet you that we'd all be fairly similar in our views. I know there's a few who are extreme on both sides of the debate, but Tory voters aren't 'nasty/selfish' and Labour aren't spongers. However, the tribal nature and the insults lead to this conflict IMO

 

[LlcoolJ]

Well, each of them are a 'celebrity' whose endorsement is being courted by a political party, to appeal to a specific sector of the electorate.

So kind of exactly the same.

Except Stormzy isn't a ****.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Just seen May on the TV, she just does not get it does she.
It's quite frightening that she can be so beligerant.

 

[LlcoolJ]

To be fair, I have been up since I left for work at 5.30 am Thursday, so you may have a point.

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It all makes sense now.

 

[Machiavelli]

It wasn't a swipe at you if that's what you're asking.

But there are still some quite bitter sounding posts on this thread whinging about all the bloody students in Brighton somehow radically altering the results here, and suggesting that progressives should be more upset than Tories and Brexiteers after this result.

It's hogwash. Blaming students as if they've formed some sort of tactical alliance to skew the polling is ludicrous. One of the reasons this city is so great is its long tradition of tolerance, acceptance and liberty. This attracts people who share these socially progressive values and whilst, yes, that does include students, it also attracts other demographics.

It was clear even before the nationwide swing became apparent that the unpopular Tory MP in Kemptown defending a very slim majority was very unlikely to keep his seat, particularly with the Greens standing aside to rally behind the Labour candidate. You'd also have found odds of about 1/20 on Caroline Lucas keeping her seat so betting against that would have just been easy money for the bookies.

If people want to whine that their preferred candidate didn't make it then fine but the huge majorities enjoyed by the three progressive party MPs in the city suggest that collectively the city has made its choice abundantly clear and there's absolutely zero ambiguity. We don't want Tories here.

If it makes it easier to swallow blaming it on "lefty giveaways" like the popular pledge to invest in the nation's future by abolishing tuition fees then go ahead and bury your head in the sand. But you cannot argue with the numbers, and those tell us the times of appetite for regressive, miserablist austerity politics may very well be over.

The lies have been peddled for too long and there's just no supporting evidence that the people are getting anything like a fair deal.

After the 2010 election and the EU referendum both threw up disappointing results to us progressives, to finally have an electoral surprise suggesting things maybe aren't all as bleak as they had perhaps seemed before is a nice chink of light in an uncertain time.

This isn't a victory for the left just like it isn't the end of the right. It's just a result that finally offers more hope than defeatism. And the mood in a sunny and cheery Brighton today suggests that maybe, just maybe, this could hint at a future where we do look to progress society for the better. And I've waited a long time for that hope. Let us enjoy it eh?

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Couldn't have put it better. I feel like you too.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Just seen May on the TV, she just does not get it does she.
It's quite frightening that she can be so beligerant.

She's just trying to hold the line/ buying time knowing the knives are getting closer.

 

[Bozza]

Chukka and the Blairrites sucking up to Corbyn is cringy and the lack of vocal support for Tess from any cabinet minister is telling.

Politicians are shits really aren't they.

You'd have to be both young and in a rock solid Tory seat (and the definition of that changed last night) to want to go back to the polls again any time soon.

Keep your head down, help May get through the next few weeks and when the dust settles start the new leader process.