General Election 2017

[Is it PotG?]

That, in itself is a deterrent.

If we use our nukes in retaliation we are also dead.

Oooh no, I am sure the idea of political isolation really concerns the likes of Kim Jong-Un.

 

[KVLT]

Oooh no, I am sure the idea of political isolation really concerns the likes of Kim Jong-Un.

I should think it would actually considering his limited amount of friends and desperate state of his economy.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That, in itself is a deterrent.

If we use our nukes in retaliation we are also dead.

North Korea's isolation does not seem to phase them. They deliberately starve their people and force others to send them aid as a payoff for not using their nuclear weapons. They do not live by the same civilized rules as you and I. We need diplomacy with like
minded civilizations and something more with nations that play by different rules.
The whole point of nuclear deterrence is that by owning nuclear weapons and being prepared to use them then we will
not have to use them ie neither side dies because neither side will risk a retaliatory strike.

 

[GT49er]

I should think it would actually considering his limited amount of friends and desperate state of his economy.

Why? It never has up to now.

 

[Bozza]

.....and if Tony Blair was still in the job, the referee would have to step in and rescue Cameron. If wishes were horses, eh?

I do like the way that lefties distance themselves from that ghastly pseudo-Tory Tony Blair...

...until it suits them to have him back on their side again.

 

[KVLT]

North Korea's isolation does not seem to phase them.

Their isolation after an unprovoked attack would be total. It would be a red line even for China. They would find themselves in an entirely different situation to the one they are in now.

Anyway, I'm bailing for the time being, not because I don't want to continue the debate, or feel I'm losing, but I've got the MotoGP qualifying to watch.

Have a good morning all.

 

[GT49er]

I do like the way that lefties distance themselves from that ghastly pseudo-Tory Tony Blair...

...until it suits them to have him back on their side again.

Who said I want him back? It's just that he'd eat Cameron for breakfast without even a burp.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Cut, under use, sell to your mates, cut under use, sell to your mates.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-naylor-report-everything-you-10543351

A Conservative source said: “On the back of a strong economy, we are promising the biggest ever investment in NHS buildings and technology, £10billion, that will help to transform the quality of care for patients.

“In truth the only way to increase funding for the NHS and our public services is to get the right Brexit deal in order to grow the economy, something only Theresa May can deliver.”


Gosh we're in a GREAT position aren't we.

**** sake.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Their isolation after an unprovoked attack would be total. It would be a red line even for China. They would find themselves in an entirely different situation to the one they are in now.

Anyway, I'm bailing for the time being, not because I don't want to continue the debate, or feel I'm losing, but I've got the MotoGP qualifying to watch.

Have a good morning all.

No worries, enjoy ! I don't think you are losing at all. It's all about an exchange of views. I am out as well as going to enjoy a walk in the sunshine at the beach.

 

[studio150]

There are arrangements in place for healthcare. Retaining existing conditions for UK ex-pats and EU migrants in the UK can include the healthcare arrangements. Very straightforward indeed, except for Merkel and Tusk refusing to accept a reasonable offer.

But will the EHIC card apply post Brexit? This surely must form part of the negotiations. Also bear in mind some of the NHS suggestions post Brexit where free healthcare would be removed for up to 5 years for immigrants post Brexit. It is a more complex issue.

 

[GT49er]

But will the EHIC card apply post Brexit?

No reason why it shouldn't.

Also bear in mind some of the NHS suggestions post Brexit where free healthcare would be removed for up to 5 years for immigrants post Brexit. It is a more complex issue.

Yes, up to five years for new incoming immigrants; nothing to do with existing EU nationals in the UK. Keeping the existing arrangements for people already in situ is actually very simple indeed. It's only anti-Brexiteers who want to make it more complicated; some will do anything they can think of to make Brexit more difficult.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

At 62, I'm probably older than some of them, as it happens. I doubt I'll really have nightmares but, yes, there is something about that red-faced, finger-jabbing, "let me tell you...." mode from fat bald right-wing white men (of any age), that I find slightly scary, if I'm honest.

As far as my own perspective evolving with age is concerned, if anything, my views are rather more left-wing than when I was younger (and I wasn't exactly right of centre then).

I am 58 so in a similar age group to many of these 'old' men in the Question Time audience. This means that I have first-hand experience of the many advantages that my generation had; affordable housing, free higher education, comparatively secure employment etc. Obviously there were people that did not experience these but compared with the generation before (who experienced a war) and the generation after on balance we received such a great opportunity.

Much of my politics now is driven by a massive anger that we failed to make the life for our children better than we experienced (by 'our children' I don't mean the Tory intrepretation of 'those to whom I am genetically related and screw the rest' but to a generation). I do feel a hatred for the hate-filled, myopic, self-centred, poison spewed by many people of my age and their eternal victimhood and this feeling is far more intense than anything I experienced when I was in my 20s. It is not based on naivety or idealism but on experience and a little bit of shame that I am guilty in some way by association.'

 

[Eeyore]

Angela Merkel and Donald Tusk on Tuesday united to block Theresa May's attempt to fast-track a deal which would have created an amnesty for British ex-pats and EU migrants in the UK post-Brexit.

Mrs May had proposed that EU workers currently living in the UK be allowed to remain in exchange for an agreement which gives British expats in the European Union the same rights.

She had hoped to announce a deal within weeks but while more than 20 EU nations have signalled they are prepared to agree to a reciprocal arrangement, Mrs Merkel has rebuffed Mrs May's attempts to come to an agreement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ritish-voters-backed-brexit-creating-anxiety/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-angela-merkel-eu-migrants-deal-a7445261.html

It should be recognised that the EU, certainly the bigger players, want BREXIT to fail. Nothing that has emerged thus far suggests to me otherwise.

 

[DataPoint]

Never fail to be astonished at the obsession with nuclear weapons.

Then watch 'The World at War'.

 

[Diablo]

I`m sure most on NSC have read this little story before but it is rather relevant as we approach General Election

Every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100…
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7..
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay£18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay£59.
So, that’s what they decided to do..
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner said. “Since you are all such good customers,” “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the £20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got £10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that is how our tax system works. . Tax the rich too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

No reason why it shouldn't.

.

No reason why it should either

 

[CHAPPERS]

I`m sure most on NSC have read this little story before but it is rather relevant as we approach General Election

Every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100…
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7..
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay£18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay£59.
So, that’s what they decided to do..
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner said. “Since you are all such good customers,” “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the £20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got £10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that is how our tax system works. . Tax the rich too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Oh FFS. Where are they going to go? Really? Gonna go and live in Panama where all their offshore money is?

 

[Stato]

I`m sure most on NSC have read this little story before but it is rather relevant as we approach General Election

Every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100…
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this…
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7..
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay£18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay£59.
So, that’s what they decided to do..
The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner said. “Since you are all such good customers,” “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by £20″. Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?
They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.
And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid £2 instead of £3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid £5 instead of £7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid £9 instead of £12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid £14 instead of £18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid £49 instead of £59 (16% saving).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

“I only got a dollar out of the £20 saving,” declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got £10!”
“Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”
“That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get £10 back, when I got only £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”
“Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that is how our tax system works. . Tax the rich too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Where is this pub? I don't know any rich people willing to pay for my beer. I currently have to pay exactly the same tax on my pint as a billionaire.

Why has one of them been paid in dollars? No wonder he got cross.

Is the moral that we should keep our current tax system where the rich don't shift capital overseas to avoid paying tax? Why was it set in a bar, not a Starbucks?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Oh FFS. Where are they going to go? Really? Gonna go and live in Panama where all their offshore money is?

Unlikely to be France but many of them will probably go elsewhere.

http://www.france24.com/en/20150808-france-wealthy-flee-high-taxes-les-echos-figures

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/21/here-are-the-places-where-millionaires-are-moving.html

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I know it's the Daily Mail which people hate here, but I thought this article was quite interesting.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4567996/Why-t-doctors-admit-Tory-NHS-cuts-myth.html