Gene Simmons ( Kiss ) giving it straight

[Swansman]

New vaccines every 6th months for the entire global population is not in any way sustainable and I've yet to see anyone in the vaxxlovers camp explain what the long term plan is.

They are not selfless, they are dealing with their own fear. Its not selfless to find short terms escapes that will indebt the societies and nations of future generations.

 

[birthofanorange]

New vaccines every 6th months for the entire global population is not in any way sustainable and I've yet to see anyone in the vaxxlovers camp explain what the long term plan is.

They are not selfless, they are dealing with their own fear. Its not selfless to find short terms escapes that will indebt the societies and nations of future generations.

Seriously, give the drugs etc. a break, as you're coming across as increasingly daft.

 

[Swansman]

Seriously, give the drugs etc. a break, as you're coming across as increasingly daft.

Coming from you, that's a compliment.

 

[birthofanorange]

Coming from you, that's a compliment.

No problem - just a heads-up.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm regards of the future of covid, we're nearly there already.

The vaccines and treatment will continue to improve. It will certainly become a yearly vaccine for the old and vulnerable, comparable to the flu jab.

The rest of the population, like the flu, will be fine through natural immunity which will get stronger all the time.

Now that I do agree with.

 

[The Clamp]

New vaccines every 6th months for the entire global population is not in any way sustainable and I've yet to see anyone in the vaxxlovers camp explain what the long term plan is.

They are not selfless, they are dealing with their own fear. Its not selfless to find short terms escapes that will indebt the societies and nations of future generations.

Who is suggesting such a thing?

And who is claiming getting vaccinated is selfless? It's just what one does to protect oneself and others when a disease/virus is rampant.

Thank goodness the world isn't run by people with your attitude. We would quite literally all be dead.


Edit: Hang on, you're the pizza box dude, right? This makes more sense now

 

[Baldseagull]

I think [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION] has a very good case.

I'm going to go out and have a good few beers lunchtime and then drive home. I've driven over well over 1M miles in 40 odd years, never had an accident, driven loads of different cars, vans, trucks etc and have passed my advanced driving test, so I think there is NO chance of me having an accident and putting anyone in hospital or killing anyone. Obviously, I'm going to take precautions and not get completely and utterly shit faced.

Don't get me wrong, that drink drive law was an absolute game changer, but now all the other drunks are off the road it means I'll be even safer

In fact, I am so sure that I'll be safe that I wouldn't want anyone to worry that I might kill their friends or Family

About 85% of road deaths are caused by sober drivers, using statistics incorrectly, you will be much safer drunk.

 

[Baldseagull]

New vaccines every 6th months for the entire global population is not in any way sustainable and I've yet to see anyone in the vaxxlovers camp explain what the long term plan is.

They are not selfless, they are dealing with their own fear. Its not selfless to find short terms escapes that will indebt the societies and nations of future generations.

Long term will depend on what variants emerge. But assuming we are left with just the current vaccines and current variants, the older population and other vulnerable groups will be offered a booster vaccine as and when it is deemed immunity is waning significantly, or incidence of infection is rising or expected to rise, as happens with flu.
It can be the long term plan, it will not bankrupt the country, furloughs, lock downs and daft referendums might, but not vaccinations.

More likely though is that better vaccines are developed for people like you to reject, and if we are lucky, we may find one that provides longer term immunity, and we will certainly find better treatments for those coming down with severe infections. Just need to keep our fingers crossed that a variant that can avoid the immune system even better doesn't arise.

It would be selfless if you or Mustafa were to have the vaccine, as neither one of you think it will make you any safer, but neither of you is so daft that you don't understand that it isn't just about you. Many others who do not feel at personal risk, but know it will help reduce the spread of the virus, reduce the incidence of new variants and generally be beneficial to society as a whole, have had the vaccines, it isn't a great sacrifice, or act of selflessness, but it would be selfish to just not bother on the grounds that they personally are low risk, and it being spread around a bit more won't kill them.

Elsewhere, you have confessed a bit of an interest and following of various conspiracy theories, is it one of those that is putting you off, or is it just a general sort of "if the Governments are all telling people to do it, there must be something else going on" sort of thing?

 

[Pevenseagull]

Can you block me too please?

Nah.


You don't seem to be an utter moron who's a danger to the health of the nation.



Unless I missed something.

 

[Pevenseagull]

I'd rather have a vaccine and not need it than need a vaccine and not have it.


Edit



...because I'm not a thick ****.

 

[e77]

They did say when Vaccines were being developed it might become and annual thing to have a booster so it isn't a great surprise. However there will come a point a combination of mutating into a weaker strain and natural immunity will probably mean in a few years they will get relegated to flu shot status, i.e. old and vulnerable should have it and it is nice to have for the rest of us.

 

[The Clamp]

Without wishing to re-start a binfest, and I really don’t, this article is interesting. Your theory of you and others being immune simply doesn’t add up. Nearly all those in hospital with Covid are unvaccinated. This does not suggest immunity.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...almost-all-unvaccinated-says-oxford-scientist

 

[BenGarfield]

Without wishing to re-start a binfest, and I really don’t, this article is interesting. Your theory of you and others being immune simply doesn’t add up. Nearly all those in hospital with Covid are unvaccinated. This does not suggest immunity.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...almost-all-unvaccinated-says-oxford-scientist

The data from the governments own UKHSA latest Vaccine Surveillance report breakdown of hospitalisations by vaccination status in England for the four weeks up to November 14th would seems to conflict with the Guardian`s conclusions. It shows that in total 3,200 of 9,831 or 33% of Covid hospitalisations are of nvaccinated people, leaving 67% of Covid hospital patients in the vaccinated category, most of them with two doses.

 

[Swansman]

The data from the governments own UKHSA latest Vaccine Surveillance report breakdown of hospitalisations by vaccination status in England for the four weeks up to November 14th would seems to conflict with the Guardian`s conclusions. It shows that in total 3,200 of 9,831 or 33% of Covid hospitalisations are of nvaccinated people, leaving 67% of Covid hospital patients in the vaccinated category, most of them with two doses.

Dont think people are going to care. Facts are not very interesting.

The debate is much like any other rivalry, such as who people vote for. "I am a good person and made this life decision. Those who make other life decisions are bad people."

Throughout times people have been annoyed with those who do not mimic what is currently the most popular way of doing things and it is the same thing on this subject.

It does go in both directions. The take "I know I'm immune" is a bad one because there is no way of knowing - you can just be lucky like I've been up until yesterday. But the take "everyone who doesnt get vaccinated are selfish idiots" is also a very simplistic take. The key to holding such fundamentalist views is to worship some facts (or "facts", as they are merely indicators pointing at one way or another) while ignoring others. I'm sure the thing you mentioned will fall in the category "worshipped by some, ignored by others".

 

[dsr-burnley]

The data from the governments own UKHSA latest Vaccine Surveillance report breakdown of hospitalisations by vaccination status in England for the four weeks up to November 14th would seems to conflict with the Guardian`s conclusions. It shows that in total 3,200 of 9,831 or 33% of Covid hospitalisations are of nvaccinated people, leaving 67% of Covid hospital patients in the vaccinated category, most of them with two doses.

The Guardian says that the majority of ICU patients are unvaccinated. The government says that 33% of hospitalisations are unvaccinated. There is no conflict, because not all hospital patients are in ICU.

Several possible reasons. One, a lot of the people in hospital but not in intensive care are people with some other illness and covid is only incidental, not affecting them, or not much. Two, people in intensive care include only those who are seriously ill; people in hospital include those who are less ill but are ill enough to be unable to care for themselves and don't have family able to care for them - ie. moderately ill, elderly people. Three, many or most of the deaths from covid are old people who are already in severely failing health. These people, by and large, wouldn't be put on ventilators in intensive care to prolong their lives by a few days or weeks.

 

[birthofanorange]

The debate is much like any other rivalry, such as who people vote for. "I am a good person and made this life decision. Those who make other life decisions are bad people."

No, it really isn't - just more absurdity, I'm afraid.

 

[Swansman]

No, it really isn't - just more absurdity, I'm afraid.

Your opinion is noted

 

[birthofanorange]

Your opinion is noted

Yes, it's mostly opinion, to you, which is also noted.

 

[BenGarfield]

The Guardian says that the majority of ICU patients are unvaccinated. The government says that 33% of hospitalisations are unvaccinated. There is no conflict, because not all hospital patients are in ICU.

Several possible reasons. One, a lot of the people in hospital but not in intensive care are people with some other illness and covid is only incidental, not affecting them, or not much. Two, people in intensive care include only those who are seriously ill; people in hospital include those who are less ill but are ill enough to be unable to care for themselves and don't have family able to care for them - ie. moderately ill, elderly people. Three, many or most of the deaths from covid are old people who are already in severely failing health. These people, by and large, wouldn't be put on ventilators in intensive care to prolong their lives by a few days or weeks.

I think that’s splitting hairs and I don’t know where the Guardian is getting it’s ICU data as it hasn’t been published since July. The Guardian also recently released an article by an an anonymous hospital consultant complaining that hospitals are full of non vaccinated COVID patients. It’s clear what their agenda is.

 

[birthofanorange]

I think that’s splitting hairs and I don’t know where the Guardian is getting it’s ICU data as it hasn’t been published since July. The Guardian also recently released an article by an an anonymous hospital consultant complaining that hospitals are full of non vaccinated COVID patients. It’s clear what their agenda is.

What's the agenda, then?