Gene Simmons ( Kiss ) giving it straight

[Deportivo Seagull]

At which point have I posted anything unscientific??

I'm pro vaccine. I think it's absolutely crucial that the over 50's get one every year for the rest of their lives. The priority has always been, and always will be, keeping those at risk safe - for both themselves and the NHS.

You have spouted bollocks regarding being highly immune but haven’t given a shred of evidence other than opinion. That is unscientific. As someone who’s first degree is in A STEM subject this ****s me right off.


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[Deportivo Seagull]

It's not that simple. I went into more detail with this point earlier in the thread.

The vaccine doesn't contain some magic bit in it which makes the virus less transmissible. It just activates an immune response. Someone who has natural immunity has the same benefits.

There you go again with natural immunity. You do not know, you have an opinion but nothing to back it up. That is very very unscientific and quite frankly bollocks.

The vaccines strength is that it greatly reduces the chance of catching it. If you don’t catch it then you can’t pass it on, in other words it reduces the the transmission of the virus. That’s the magic bit …..


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[Deportivo Seagull]

It's not magic, it's exactly what the immune system does when it is in the presence of an antigen, in this case covid.

As far as I'm aware there are absolutely no advantages from vaccine sourced immunity to natural immunity. I haven't done too much reading on the subject, but there is research that has found that natural immunity is superior to covid vaccines... and that's not surprising considering the immune system learns to attack covid in its natural form, rather than targetting just part of the virus.

The advantages of vaccine is that there is no guess work involved unlike your assertion which is all guess work.
The point is that unless you have tested positive for COVID you DO NOT have proof that you are ‘highly immune’, and then that is very much debatable. The bodies natural immunity wanes differently from people to people and so you have no idea how long you will be ‘highly immune’.

As I say it guess work on your part. At least the vaccine gives you so level of immunity and also boast your T cells over and above what the human body can do.


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[Fat Boy Fat]

It's a highly contageous disease. It's a statistical certainty. Especially when you know you have been with infected people numerous times.

So, it's a highly contagious disease, that through your own choice, and gut instincts, you elect not to get vaccinated against, to protect you and others around you. Got it...

 

[The Clamp]

The ultimate and most fundamental point in my continuing decision not to get the vaccine, is that I don't believe it will protect me or others around me.

If there’s even a slim chance it will save someone’s life, why not get it? What if you’re wrong? You are coming across as someone who just can’t be arsed, a rather selfish person. And to try and justify your laziness you’ve cooked up a nonsense story that flies in the face of all accepted science.

Jus’ sayin.

 

[The Clamp]

The advantages of vaccine is that there is no guess work involved unlike your assertion which is all guess work.
The point is that unless you have tested positive for COVID you DO NOT have proof that you are ‘highly immune’, and then that is very much debatable. The bodies natural immunity wanes differently from people to people and so you have no idea how long you will be ‘highly immune’.

As I say it guess work on your part. At least the vaccine gives you so level of immunity and also boast your T cells over and above what the human body can do.


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The bloke is not very smart. You are right.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The ultimate and most fundamental point in my continuing decision not to get the vaccine, is that I don't believe it will protect me or others around me, any more than is already the case.

If there were an award for continuing onward whilst ignoring all facts, expert and scientific advice, I think you a shoo-in for 2nd place

 

[birthofanorange]

If it wasn't so potentially risky, your stance would be as hilarious as that taken by a Flat Earther, but as it is, you're behaving like a knob.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The ultimate and most fundamental point in my continuing decision not to get the vaccine, is that I don't believe it will protect me or others around me, any more than is already the case.

The ultimate and most fundamental point of your stance is that your stupidity and pseudo science could cost someone there life.

Can I suggest that you ditch medicine entirely because it seems you only believe in what suits you.


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[birthofanorange]

The irony with this comment is that I'm the only one that discusses the science of immunity.

Which you base on your 'gut feeling' and the fact that you 'believe' you are immune.

Righto.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The irony with this comment is that I'm the only one that discusses the science of immunity.

Everyone else is like "gEt VaCCiNe CoS sCiEnCE & U KiLZ PPL"

Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. I know the government have presented the 'facts' in a very simplistic way in order to push the vaccine for everyone when it was once important to, but it's such a complex issue. The reality is that not everyone needs to be vaccinated. It makes no difference after a certain point how many people are vaccinated when we're dealing with a disease which isn't going away, as long as those who are vulnerable are.

You are an idiot. It is very simple. The vaccine programme has saved 1000’s of lives. It is not a coincidence that number s of cases and especially deaths fell significantly as the vaccine programme kicked in. For you to say otherwise is stupid, callous and embarrassing.


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[Deportivo Seagull]

I don't believe that it will save anyones life - EVEN if I'm not immune, which I am, at this point in the pandemic, as people are as protected against covid as they're ever going to be.

If an old or vulnerable person isn't exposed to covid thorugh infected person A, or infected person B, or C, or D, and so on, they will continue to be exposed to the virus until they do inevitably do have the potential to catch it. Covid is part of life now and it's not going away. Most carriers of covid are vaccinated people now. The only important thing remaining is to keep old and vulnerable as safe as possible through booster jabs, as they WILL encounter covid. We just need to ensure they are best equipped to not have severe symptoms once they do.

In regards to 'the science', clearly you and others haven't tried to learn much other than what you read in the headlines a year ago.

So no, I don't believe getting vaccinated will save anyone's life for two key reasons:

- I am certain I am already immune
- Even if I wasn't, vulnerable people will already be exposed to covid through other means, including the vaccinated.

The vaccine reduces transmission thus reduces the chance of the vulnerable from getting it. It’s very simple as it appears are you.
Fwiw, my first degree is a STEM subject and I so I do read deeper than headlines. The difference between you and I is that i’ll refer to credible data (Uni of Oxford, Cambridge to name of few) whereas you have in all likelihood read bollocks from unspecified sources on the net. FFS.


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[Fat Boy Fat]

I've got my Christmas present sorted for [MENTION=7]Mustafa[/MENTION]

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/6064363?clickPR=plp:2:11

 

[Pevenseagull]

Unblocked Mustafa

Read most recent post

Reblocked Mustafa

 

[Brighton & Love]

Unblocked Mustafa

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Reblocked Mustafa

Can you block me too please?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The bottom line is that there was 38k case today. Deaths are in still in the 100’s. The best way of not giving it to someone is to have the vaccine, interestingly a mix of natural and vaccine immunity is apparently better than just natural.
The big concern of the NHS is unvaccinated people of any age catching COVID AND another respiratory illness. It won’t be pleasant …

What I find depressing is that medical world to a man/women are urging people to get vaccinated. These people have donkeys years of learning, research and experience, yet you who obviously doesn’t have any medical knowledgeable thinks they are wrong. Now these experts do disagree on where it started, can we achieve herd immunity etc however one thing they all agree on is the vaccine.

You do realise that your position makes you look like a weapons grade dickhead.


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[The Clamp]

I don't believe that it will save anyones life - EVEN if I'm not immune, which I am, at this point in the pandemic, as people are as protected against covid as they're ever going to be.

If an old or vulnerable person isn't exposed to covid thorugh infected person A, or infected person B, or C, or D, and so on, they will continue to be exposed to the virus until they do inevitably do have the potential to catch it. Covid is part of life now and it's not going away. Most carriers of covid are vaccinated people now. The only important thing remaining is to keep old and vulnerable as safe as possible through booster jabs, as they WILL encounter covid. We just need to ensure they are best equipped to not have severe symptoms once they do.

In regards to 'the science', clearly you and others haven't tried to learn much other than what you read in the headlines a year ago.

So no, I don't believe getting vaccinated will save anyone's life for two key reasons:

- I am certain I am already immune
- Even if I wasn't, vulnerable people will already be exposed to covid through other means, including the vaccinated.

You cannot be certain you are immune. That’s not up for debate. So you cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

The irony with this comment is that I'm the only one that discusses the science of immunity.

Everyone else is like "gEt VaCCiNe CoS sCiEnCE & U KiLZ PPL"

Unfortunately it's not as simple as that. I know the government have presented the 'facts' in a very simplistic way in order to push the vaccine for everyone when it was once important to, but it's such a complex issue. The reality is that not everyone needs to be vaccinated. It makes no difference after a certain point how many people are vaccinated when we're dealing with a disease which isn't going away, as long as those who are vulnerable are.

Just for you

The problem with natural immunity is that A) it's not as good as vaccination and B) it does wane over time and people get re-infected if you don't follow that up with a vaccination," University of Virginia Assistant Professor of Medicine Dr. Taison Bell

Or

“This idea of really building our immunological protection at a population level just based on natural infection, first of all, is super dangerous,” Dr. Keri Althoff, associate professor of epidemiology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told Yahoo Finance. “It’s very hard. We have risk factors for people who are at higher risk for severe illness and death with this, but we have had young, healthy people die of this COVID. We don’t want this virus to just go wild and people lose their lives.”

Now who should you believe…. You or the medical experts above?


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[The Clamp]

Absolutely agree, but this is why you're being obtuse. I'm not saying that at all.

The vaccine programme was a game changer. It fast tracked us to where we are now.

Without the vaccine programme, imagining we ended restrictions the same time that we did, the NHS would have been overwhelmed. Like you say, 1,000's more would have died and then some.... but following that human disaster, eventually we would have ended up where we are now. An immune population.

But because we DID have the vaccine programme, thankfully many older and vulnerable people are still with us. These people will need to have boosters and covid vaccines for the rest of their lives, but presumably most of them already have the flu vaccine so I'm sure that won't be a big deal to them.

In regards to everyone else, does it even matter anymore? Not really. NHS staff are exposed to high viral loads and are around vulnerable or unwell people, so I think we can all agree why they need to have the vaccine. Similarly, there is an argument for having kids vaccinated to prevent an explosion of cases and a dangerous new wave - but even that is debateable now.

Bottom line is that we are in a very different place to where we were a year ago. We are an immune population. I'm immune, so are most of the other unvaccinated people now. Getting vaccinated isn't a bad thing by any means, but it certainly isn't required in healthy people anymore.

What were you doing when the vaccine rolled out? Just sort of seeing what happens? Hoping not too many people die as a result of your weird immunity experiment?
Well, there's a very good chance your world is going to get very, very small in the next few months. I'd like to see how long you hold out when you can't get onto planes or into venues. See how your immunity theory goes down with airport security.

Do you ever wonder how many lives you may have ended while you were waiting to see if your immunity thing worked out?

 

[Brighton & Love]

Just for you

The problem with natural immunity is that A) it's not as good as vaccination and B) it does wane over time and people get re-infected if you don't follow that up with a vaccination," University of Virginia Assistant Professor of Medicine Dr. Taison Bell

Or

“This idea of really building our immunological protection at a population level just based on natural infection, first of all, is super dangerous,” Dr. Keri Althoff, associate professor of epidemiology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told Yahoo Finance. “It’s very hard. We have risk factors for people who are at higher risk for severe illness and death with this, but we have had young, healthy people die of this COVID. We don’t want this virus to just go wild and people lose their lives.”

Now who should you believe…. You or the medical experts above?


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I must admit, I have never heard of either doctor before so I've just done a brief little investigation on them both and here are my findings:

Dr. Keri Althoff- Small interview I found: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202102/08/WS6020ef8ea31024ad0baa818c.html

Dr. Taison Bell- Apparently he was a big player in getting Remdesvir used to treat Covid-19. Here's an interesting article about Remdesvir: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2021/01/31/remdesivir-covid-coronavirus/?sh=32ac307c66c2