Gene Simmons ( Kiss ) giving it straight

[BadFish]

As I explained earlier in the thread, there is no real need for me to get it, both in respect of where we are in the pandemic and in terms of my own immunity.

If I don't want to get it, and I don't need to get it, then why would I get it?

I posted this question earlier. You may have missed it. I would be interested in the answer


I may have missed this information earlier on in the thread, if so I apologise, but how do you know that you are immune? I mean do you have any scientific evidence that shows your immunity.

I ask this because a good friend of mine was feeling the same way. he was fit and healthy and had been in numerous hotspots across Europe during the pandemic.

His infection with COVID was not only highly unpleasant but it also came at a particularly bad time for him.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

The Nicky Campbell phone in the other morning on R5 was very good - an NHS employee was on who loves her job but refuses to have the vaccine as it is her choice and she has antibodies but will reluctantly get the vaccine at the last possible moment in order to keep her job. A Cancer patient then phoned in and said that she was having to isolate etc and she would prefer that the NHS employee left her job tomorrow as she clearly didn't mind putting vulnerable people at risk.

Simmons is right.

They should of course be vaccinated, but why are they waiting till April?

They won’t ban the unvaccinated from the NHS, look at the damage caused by doing it to care homes - a decision I agree with.

 

[LamieRobertson]

As ever it seems like the extremes on both sides are being somewhat rabid. As I say I believe that the answer to this stuff is for those in the center to encourage talking and listening. Generalisations about how people are behaving in this discussion is counter productive for me. Divisive and counter productive.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

If I don't want to get it, and I don't need to get it, then why would I get it?

But it's the others who are acting out of self interest.

 

[Guinness Boy]

As I explained earlier in the thread, there is no real need for me to get it, both in respect of where we are in the pandemic and in terms of my own immunity.

If I don't want to get it, and I don't need to get it, then why would I get it?

Then you are not "pro vaccines".

You refuse to use, promote and defend them. In fact, all you do is spout unscientific nonsense.

You are not immune either.

 

[Baldseagull]

Yes I agree with what you say here. My concern though is that we are having certain freedoms removed for those who choose not to be vaccinated. Before I am comfortable that people who choose not to be vaccinated should have those freedoms curtailed I would like to know just how much risk they pose to society.

Your answer of "Not as uncomfortable as having a tube stuffed into your airways to keep you alive. " suggests that I should be prepared to ignore my reservations about people's freedom being taken away because those people still represent a sizable threat to my health.

I am keen to know how big that threat is?

I could be wrong but my understanding is it is not a large enough threat to warrant stopping people[ from going for a beer or a coffee if they choose not to be vaccinated.

I do not believe there is a solid number anyone can give you, the Delta variant is better at transmission than others, and the difference between the number of viral particles in the breath of an unvaccinated covid sufferer and a vaccinated one are not large with Delta, however the vaccinated person will be infectious for a shorter period. Other variants, the vaccines are much better at suppressing transmission. The Delta variant will have arisen in a single person, and Delta is now the dominant strain in the world, and became so in less than a year after it was first seen in India, because it is more easily transmitted. The next mutation may make no difference at all between having had the vaccines or not, it may avoid triggering the immune response from the existing vaccines entirely.

An unvaccinated person is going to have the virus replicating many more times within them than if they were vaccinated, each replication can produce a mutation, and eventually we could end up with a variant that is better able to avoid the immune response the vaccine gives us, it is a small chance of actually happening, but the consequence could be devastating. We could end up with that anyway with breakthrough cases in vaccinated people, but it is ever less likely, with increased levels of vaccination.

My previous comment was blunt and not really fair, it is of course reasonable to look at the laws proposed and how their consequences, but it is the people refusing the vaccine that gives the impetus for the legislation, and the consequences of lower rates of vaccination are that more people will get covid, and some will need intubation.

I am not up to speed with the legislation being proposed in Australia, and maybe it is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. However, all governments should be looking at what powers could be useful in containing not only this, but the next pandemic, and where appropriate, making those laws available. most laws are in place on account of a relatively small number of ****wits in society, having a significant impact on the rest of us. Vaccine dodgers are mostly ****wits, and we may need to legislate for them, but I would prefer it if they just developed a bit more of a thoughtful attitude to it, and did the right thing voluntarily, they mostly know it is the right thing to do, but have these nagging fears from watching too many conspiracy nut videos, or alternative medicine practioners. I had one guy try and tell me that the human immune system was always going to be better than a man made vaccine trying to fight infections, totally missing the point that a vaccine just gives the human immune system a heads up on what might be coming it's way and totally relies on the human immune system to actually fight the virus.

 

[WATFORD zero]

At which point have I posted anything unscientific??

I'm pro vaccine. I think it's absolutely crucial that the over 50's get one every year for the rest of their lives. The priority has always been, and always will be, keeping those at risk safe - for both themselves and the NHS.

And you being unvaccinated but believing you have immunity with no scientific evidence whatsoever is obviously a great help towards this priority of keeping those at risk safe ?

 

[Baldseagull]

As I explained earlier in the thread, there is no real need for me to get it, both in respect of where we are in the pandemic and in terms of my own immunity.

If I don't want to get it, and I don't need to get it, then why would I get it?

You have estimated that you do not need to get it, on the suspicion that you either have had asymptomatic infection, and have antibodies, or are genetically resistant to this corona virus. But you do not know, unless you were regularly testing, as those in certain jobs do, or have had your DNA tested and found to have one or more of the known gene variants on or off that are known to inhibit the ability of the virus to replicate.
There is very low risk of an adverse reaction to the vaccine, blood clots are a much higher possibility with covid infection than vaccination, for example.

The reason you are not having it is because you do not want to, and you are trying to justify this decision with some estimation and some wishful thinking on the probability of it being the safest course of action for yourself, even though it would definitely be the safest for everyone else you come into contact with, to have the vaccine.

Is there some other fear over the vaccine you are not expressing here, or is it just the known possible side effects?

 

[Bozza]

What a load of tosh, both my kids are young and 100% behind vaccinations, it is a very very small number of shouty people, of whatever age, who disagree

Selfishness and a lack of concern for others is just as bad, if not worse, than self interest isn’t it?

Exactly. My 18-y-o daughter had the vaccine as soon as it was available to her, despite the fact she was previously infected (and we know she was infected, due to symptoms and a positive PCR test - we're not just guessing).

She doesn't live with me, and we'd not discussed it - I wanted her to make up her own mind, but I'm delighted she took what is clearly the right decision.

Why did she take it, given she definitely had some naturally-acquired immunity and is in a very low-rise demographic? Because as a functioning member of our society, she wanted to do the right thing for everyone else.

Not all younger people are selfish ****s, thankfully.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

I have been exposed to covid so many times and I never catch it. The only possibility is that I am immune to it.

If the above statement is true, which I am certain it is, then having a vaccine will make absolutely no difference towards me catching it or passing it on.

You keep saying this, can I ask how you know this? Are you going round Covid wards shaking hands with patients?

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

My job does have a voluntary requirement to carry out 3 lateral flow tests a week, which I have been doing for a long time now - mainly to protect my colleagues, just in case. But over time, when I have been in situations where I feel certain I'm going to get covid (pinged by the app, in contact with someone tested positive, in busy pubs and bars, etc.) I never seem to get it.

I have a theory that me and my colleagues all caught it around Jan 2020 when we all got very unwell with cold/flu like symptoms. We're all key workers, a team of around 20, and something else that backs that theory is that NONE of us have caught covid since as far as we're aware.

Either way, I am happy with my health and my immune system dealing with antigens such as influenza and now covid naturally. I don't fear either vaccine, as I've said before I just don't want it - this is a personal choice brought through llogical reasoning and also a gut feeling that it is what is best for me.

Aren’t they the obverse of each other?

 

[WATFORD zero]

My job does have a voluntary requirement to carry out 3 lateral flow tests a week, which I have been doing for a long time now - mainly to protect my colleagues, just in case. But over time, when I have been in situations where I feel certain I'm going to get covid (pinged by the app, in contact with someone tested positive, in busy pubs and bars, etc.) I never seem to get it.

I have a theory that me and my colleagues all caught it around Jan 2020 when we all got very unwell with cold/flu like symptoms. We're all key workers, a team of around 20, and something else that backs that theory is that NONE of us have caught covid since as far as we're aware.

Either way, I am happy with my health and my immune system dealing with antigens such as influenza and now covid naturally. I don't fear either vaccine, as I've said before I just don't want it - this is a personal choice brought through logical reasoning and also a gut feeling that it is what is best for me.

And I couldn't give a **** about anyone else. You could have saved yourself a lot of posts and typing if you had simply said this in the first place

 

[e77]

Just to clarify, if you don't have a vaccine when the opportunity presents itself and you haven't got a medical reason why not (I have sympathy with pregnant women not having it until the give birth) you are an extraordinarily selfish human being.

If you think you know better than the entire medical profession then let me add you are extraordinarily arrogant and deluded.

 

[Swansman]

Love how the "selfish" thing is thrown around, as if people are getting vaccinated on behalf of the best of society which is just ridiculous considering all the things we all do that does not help society.

People get vaccinated because they are afraid, not because its some kind altruistic sacrifice.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I have said numerous times I do not believe I am a threat to anyone else. If I were then that could change my decision. Wouldn't want to kill my parents afterall.

I also believe we are at the point in the pandemic where we have numbers which are close to what will become the norm, so vaccinating healthy individuals is no more important now than it will be in 10 years time.

Simple scientific fact. If you are not vaccinated then there is an increased risk of you catching Covid and infecting others and you have increased the risk of killing your parents and other people's parents through your actions. Let's all just hope that like so many drunk drivers, although you have been totally irresponsible, that you've also been very lucky and not killed anyone.

Whatever you 'believe'

 

[Baldseagull]

My job does have a voluntary requirement to carry out 3 lateral flow tests a week, which I have been doing for a long time now - mainly to protect my colleagues, just in case. But over time, when I have been in situations where I feel certain I'm going to get covid (pinged by the app, in contact with someone tested positive, in busy pubs and bars, etc.) I never seem to get it.

I have a theory that me and my colleagues all caught it around Jan 2020 when we all got very unwell with cold/flu like symptoms. We're all key workers, a team of around 20, and something else that backs that theory is that NONE of us have caught covid since as far as we're aware.

Either way, I am happy with my health and my immune system dealing with antigens such as influenza and now covid naturally. I don't fear either vaccine, as I've said before I just don't want it - this is a personal choice brought through logical reasoning and also a gut feeling that it is what is best for me.

If there is ever something I don't want to do, it is out of fear usually. I can't see why you would not want it if it holds no fears for you, and as you understand how it works, know that it can only increase any immunity you already have, and have a suspicion that you have had symptomatic covid, but almost 2 years ago. Your logical reasoning seems flawed to me, the gut feeling is probably what you are working with.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's a highly contageous disease. It's a statistical certainty. Especially when you know you have been with infected people numerous times.

Shouldn't they have been isolating numerous times?

If you have covid you shouldn't be out and about.

 

[Baldseagull]

Love how the "selfish" thing is thrown around, as if people are getting vaccinated on behalf of the best of society which is just ridiculous considering all the things we all do that does not help society.

People get vaccinated because they are afraid, not because its some kind altruistic sacrifice.

This is bollocks mate, there is of course an element of self protection, especially for those of us over 30, but we give our kids the R part of the MMR to protect unborn children, Rubella is rarely severe to them directly, well, those of us that are not relying on everyone else getting vaccinated because we heard Autism might be caused by it are anyway. For the younger people, all those getting vaccinated are doing more so for others than themselves, they know they are at low risk, but do it because it helps everyone. I give blood, maybe it ends up in the bin and was a waste of time, but maybe it saves someones life, and I can do that and be a **** to society in other ways, I don't have to be a **** all the time.

 

[Guinness Boy]

This is bollocks mate, there is of course an element of self protection, especially for those of us over 30, but we give our kids the R part of the MMR to protect unborn children, Rubella is rarely severe to them directly, well, those of us that are not relying on everyone else getting vaccinated because we heard Autism might be caused by it are anyway. For the younger people, all those getting vaccinated are doing more so for others than themselves, they know they are at low risk, but do it because it helps everyone. I give blood, maybe it ends up in the bin and was a waste of time, but maybe it saves someones life, and I can do that and be a **** to society in other ways, I don't have to be a **** all the time.

Exactly. My son is unlikely to get cervical cancer but has still had his HPV jabs.

 

[Baldseagull]

Exactly. My son is unlikely to get cervical cancer but has still had his HPV jabs.

In fairness, there are some other rare cancers that he will be directly protected against, but the main reason for offering it to boys is for the herd immunity effect on cervical cancer.