Gaza(not the footballer) is going seriously Boobz Up

[Triggaaar]

That's useful inside information; sauce?

Israel intelligence service.

Which land are you talking about anyway?

All of it.

I suspect that the International Court of Justice, United Nations Security Council and UN General Council take a slightly different view to you.

I'm not sure they do. They asked Isreal to leave, Israel declined. That doesn't mean they don't agree that Israel face a threat.

 

[Simster]

This is why this idea that the Palestinians are responsible for the trouble is misguided. What have they got to lose? They haven't got much left.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

Seriously, you are looking for an arguement where one doesn't exist. I can find maps that show boundaries, look

or maybe

I am sorry if my term of subjugation and predudice seems to implay harsher conditions than stateless and angry. They both result in the same thing. A group of people who are oppressed!

I loath they way the Arab population is treated and I make no excuses for Israeli hawks who want occupy the whole of the area. Equally I have no time for the Hamas leadership who fire rockets into Israeli controlled areas knowing full well the response is going to be hard and kill many innocents.

I believe Israeli settlement should stop and that much of the occupied west bank and Gaza areas should be returned. There are many peaceful Israelis and Arabs who would happily live in peace, it is political and religious leaders that stir up the hate.

I have no solution, just an acknowledgement that the situation is much, much, much more complicated than what is currently happening, even though what is currently happening is the immediate tradegy.

What would your solution be? and that is not a sarcasitic question or an attempt to create an arguement, it is simply a question on what you think would sort this out, or at least stop the killing in the short term.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What would your solution be? and that is not a sarcasitic question or an attempt to create an arguement, it is simply a question on what you think would sort this out, or at least stop the killing in the short term.

While not a permanent solution, I'd suggest Israel retreating to the agreed UN borders and adhering to international law would be a good start.

 

[looney]

The western media IS MOSTLY owned by jewish people
]

No it isn't. None of the satelite broadcasters are owned by jews, mainly sky and AL jazeeera, less than 50% of the broadsheets are, the mail and express, The mirror? Of the terrestrial tellevision none of them are owned by jews. And they give a range of opinions.

 

[dingodan]

Seriously, you are looking for an arguement where one doesn't exist. I can find maps that show boundaries, look

or maybe

I am sorry if my term of subjugation and predudice seems to implay harsher conditions than stateless and angry. They both result in the same thing. A group of people who are oppressed!

I loath they way the Arab population is treated and I make no excuses for Israeli hawks who want occupy the whole of the area. Equally I have no time for the Hamas leadership who fire rockets into Israeli controlled areas knowing full well the response is going to be hard and kill many innocents.

I believe Israeli settlement should stop and that much of the occupied west bank and Gaza areas should be returned. There are many peaceful Israelis and Arabs who would happily live in peace, it is political and religious leaders that stir up the hate.

I have no solution, just an acknowledgement that the situation is much, much, much more complicated than what is currently happening, even though what is currently happening is the immediate tradegy.

What would your solution be? and that is not a sarcasitic question or an attempt to create an arguement, it is simply a question on what you think would sort this out, or at least stop the killing in the short term.

I don't see where we are at odds to be honest. I highlighted part of your post, that is exactly what I think.

The map I posted shows more than a random series of borders, it shows the gradual extermination of a population. It was meant to say basically what you said - Israeli settlement should stop

You, I, the people of Israel & the people of Palestine, can all see what the next map in that series of maps looks like.

That is the problem, & understanding it, the solution.

 

[daveinprague]

No it isn't. None of the satelite broadcasters are owned by jews, mainly sky and AL jazeeera, less than 50% of the broadsheets are, the mail and express, The mirror? Of the terrestrial tellevision none of them are owned by jews. And they give a range of opinions.

Are you arguing with yourself?

ah, youre not....


If ISIL get to the Syrian/Israeli border, then they will have something to worry about...

 

[pastafarian]

let me get this correct,in response to the question who runs the western media? you direct to this page concerning Jewish business people

ok - and i'll use wikipedia (sidequiz.....who owns them?) so you don't get wierd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_businesspeople (numbers 3 and 6).

where nearly 50% of the people mentioned in sections 3 and 6 are dead.

and you call me a plum.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

While not a permanent solution, I'd suggest Israel retreating to the agreed UN borders and adhering to international law would be a good start.

Don't disagree in principal, but who agreed the borders, certainly not the Palestinians who were living there in 1947 (hence the almost immediate war), so as you say not permanent. The question is, would that stop the attacks on Israel from Hamas? If the Israeli government makes (what its people see as concessions) and the rocket attacks continue, this normally serves to harden the line the Israeli voters want the government to take, usually leading to a renewed round of land grabbing and settlement. I honestly can't see this as a short term solution.

2005 a large step was taken with the disengagement plan, however by 2007 Fatah and Hamas were at war. This effectivley left Hamas and Fatah controlling seperate areas and allowed Iran to start supporting Hamas and the Arab league supporting the West Bank Fatah based Palestinians. Hamas was and is intent on the destruction of Israel (Iran by proxy), this is the perfect excuse for hawks and the political right in Israel to declare there can be no peace, sweep to election victory and respond to small misile attacks disproportiately.

I would say a UN peace keeping force, but that has very little trust in the Arab communities, post Iraq and Afganistan.

 

[somerset]

If ISIL get to the Syrian/Israeli border, then they will have something to worry about...

Who will?

 

[daveinprague]

Who will?

The Israelis.

 

[Diego Napier]

Israel intelligence service.
All of it.
I'm not sure they do. They asked Isreal to leave, Israel declined. That doesn't mean they don't agree that Israel face a threat.

Israel intelligence service? That'll be true then.

It's one thing facing a threat, quite another to take action. The international community patently recocnise the threat but don't condone the invasions. Even the Israeli High Court of Justice has repeated ruled that the occupation of the West back violates international law.

 

[Triggaaar]

Seriously, you are looking for an arguement where one doesn't exist. I can find maps that show boundaries, look

I think I'd call it a pre-emtive strike, rather than a counter-attack. Either way, I personally don't blame them for it. And at the end, they offered to withdraw from all territory if their neighbours agreed to recognise Israel as a state and promise not to invade, and they said no

What would your solution be?

Neighboring countries recognise Israel as an independent state, and promise not to invade, in exchange for Israel completely withdrawing everything from all occupied territories. Also agree that no military equipment may occupy the land Israel gives up.

You're welcome.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

I don't see where we are at odds to be honest. I highlighted part of your post, that is exactly what I think.

The map I posted shows more than a random series of borders, it shows the gradual extermination of a population. It was meant to say basically what you said - Israeli settlement should stop

You, I, the people of Israel & the people of Palestine, can all see what the next map in that series of maps looks like.

That is the problem, & understanding it, the solution.

Trouble is, that the map looks like it does for so many reasons, not just settlement. One key reason in the progression was the war in 47, another is the internal war between Hamas and Fatah (and the Palestinian people being used as puppets by other states (i.e. Iran, Syria etc) to fight their war with Israel.) Every step forward that has been made has been reversed, and I am not sure how you can make Israeli settlement stop when Hamas keep pushing the Israeli right wing back into power by continuing attacks.

As I said, I want a sustainable peace, but many much more knowledgable than me have failed, and I don't have any answers. But it annoys me when people say it is Israeli aggression or Islamic militants that cause the problem as it is so much more complex than that.

 

[somerset]

and respond to small missile attacks disproportiately.

small...... do a bit of research, Israel is receiving approx 6 missiles an hour, most fired from concealed positions in homes, schools, hospitals and Mosques,..... none of the actions or reactions are proportionate,.... but dont fall into the trap that this is one sided,... remember who killed the 3 Israeli students, this started the current round of escalations.

 

[Triggaaar]

Israel intelligence service? That'll be true then.

I know, no bias whatsoever

It's one thing facing a threat, quite another to take action. The international community patently recocnise the threat but don't condone the invasions. Even the Israeli High Court of Justice has repeated ruled that the occupation of the West back violates international law.

I think if Israel played by the rules we all preach, they wouldn't be there any more.

 

[somerset]

The Israelis.

Please, Israel will no more worry about Isis, than they do about Hamas, Fatah or Hizbollah,.... if incursions start along that border with Syria, one of the most heavily defended borders I might add,.... Israel will efficiently do what they always do,.... wipe them out. Israel wont discriminate between Assad support and military either, everything that poses a threat will be attacked from the air, and wiped out.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

... remember who killed the 3 Israeli students, this started the current round of escalations.

Who did then ? I ask as Israel hasn't provided any evidence who did, only assumptions.

EDIT - who's just killed 17 members of the same family ? Ah, that will be Israel.

 

[daveinprague]

small...... do a bit of research, Israel is receiving approx 6 missiles an hour, most fired from concealed positions in homes, schools, hospitals and Mosques,..... none of the actions or reactions are proportionate,.... but dont fall into the trap that this is one sided,... remember who killed the 3 Israeli students, this started the current round of escalations.

Who killed the 30 Palestinian youths in the month preceding the kidnap of the 3 Israeli youth...

 

[daveinprague]

Please, Israel will no more worry about Isis, than they do about Hamas, Fatah or Hizbollah,.... if incursions start along that border with Syria, one of the most heavily defended borders I might add,.... Israel will efficiently do what they always do,.... wipe them out. Israel wont discriminate between Assad support and military either, everything that poses a threat will be attacked from the air, and wiped out.

With American money....I guess its easy to be 'efficient' when using US advanced technology...compared to advanced 5th November rockets....I think in fact, that Hezbollah gave the Israelis a bit of a shock the last time they entered Lebanon...and the myth of an invincible IDF was shattered a bit.