Gay Marriage - The Vote

[User removed 4]

you are smarter than that brovion

I was thinking the same.

 

[topbanana36]

It's an observation and by no means 100% accurate. That's why I said 'tend to be.' By the way, your post is missing a question mark

 

[BadFish]

you are smarter than that brovion

That's cos he's left wing

 

[Brovion]

You are giving the politicians who voted yes far too much credit, are you honestly saying everyone who voted yes did so because of deeply held convictions about equality? Are you sure there were not some who did so in order to (say) protect their own political careers?

Equally to just roll out the same old prejudiced bigot remark for those against the proposal is way too simplistic; regardless of the moral case for the legislation there are many millions of people in this country who have long understood marriage as a traditional construct with a man and woman.

They were taught this in schools when they were young, they lived it and continue to believe it, changing the law does not change how many of these people understand it. You may not like it but that's the fact of the matter. Now that the law has changed we will see just how tolerant those on the pro side of this legislation are when dealing with those who were opposed.

Labelling those who were prepared to stand up for their (or their constituents) beliefs are not automatically prejudiced bigots, saying they are is a hysterical over reaction.........that is democracy.

For your first point it was a free vote with no whips, and whilst I don't claim to know the minds of all the MPs I'm prepared to accept that they voted by conscience, although it is of course possible that a couple of them said "Look at me Dave! I'm voting the same as you!"

The second point is slightly more complex. Yes of course people grew up with different values. My father for example was a terrible racist; a 'casual' one but a racist none the less. He wasn't a 'bad' man, it was just the way he was brought up and he was a product of his era. Doubtless there are fundamentally decent people who nevertheless believe that same-sex marriage is an abomination and those unions should not be granted the same status as the more traditional ones. Given time though that view will go the way of believing that black people are intellectually inferior, and yesterday was a step on that path.

 

[Brovion]

you are smarter than that brovion

I was thinking the same.

Yeah, sorry, if you see my reply to skipper I've retracted the 'bigot' allegation as possibly too blanket. It was a bit of an over-reaction to his "you've been conned by Dave!" comment!

 

[User removed 4]

Yeah, sorry, if you see my reply to skipper I've retracted the 'bigot' allegation as possibly too blanket. It was a bit of an over-reaction to his "you've been conned by Dave!" comment!

yes, I saw it after I had posted !

 

[The Spanish]

That's cos he's left wing

a lot of us are mate in many ways, but its the pavlovian responses of some on here thats so funny you can get them to do anything. gay marriage and immigration good! yes have a biscuit.

there are so many unthinking responses on here its terrifying. not coming down on either side here, but the laughable lack of acknowledgement that in british history up until now same sex marriage would have been seen as utterly insane, and the view that anyone wary or uncertain about it should move out the way grandad, is childish and idiotic. good luck to a coupleof fellas who want to get married. having lived in brighton for many years i know many committed gay couples and i dont like people being bullied or victimised because of their sexuality. but this agressive like it or lump it this is the way the winds blowing attitude is nasty and unforgiving. thats my problem with this debate.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

For your first point it was a free vote with no whips, and whilst I don't claim to know the minds of all the MPs I'm prepared to accept that they voted by conscience, although it is of course possible that a couple of them said "Look at me Dave! I'm voting the same as you!"

The second point is slightly more complex. Yes of course people grew up with different values. My father for example was a terrible racist; a 'casual' one but a racist none the less. He wasn't a 'bad' man, it was just the way he was brought up and he was a product of his era. Doubtless there are fundamentally decent people who nevertheless believe that same-sex marriage is an abomination and those unions should not be granted the same status as the more traditional ones. Given time though that view will go the way of believing that black people are intellectually inferior, and yesterday was a step on that path.

What a very sensible comment and one with which i wholeheartedly agree. I heard the Bishop of salisbury make a very similar comment last Summer about the Women Bishop situation - that in 100 years time there will be women Bishops, and nobody will realise there was such a fuss about it now. After all, 200 years ago, the Church of England was in favour of slavery.

 

[piersa]

Hmmmm sure you wouldn't say this to a peodophile?!

I think the poster was assuming any readers of his text had the ability to use some common sense....................

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

David, you seem a sensible chap, can you at least read the post I quoted because we were dealing with one of "the bible says it, it must be true." I am fully aware that faith comes in all shapes and sizes, which is what really frustrates me about the "marriage is between a man and a woman," types.

Amen to your second point. It's no use whingeing about the country becoming more secular, the Church needs to make a far bigger effort to engage with people on issues that they can have a compassionate voice on rather than coming across all Jurassic Park.

I have already replied to this above, but just wonder if those who quote the Bible (Leviticus) about homosexuality also refrain from bacon sandwiches, pork sausages, roast pork, prawn cocktails, oysters and any other sort of shellfish. There was a very good article in the Guardian yesterday by Polly Toynbee on the subject pointing out this sort of stuff.

 

[BadFish]

a lot of us are mate in many ways, but its the pavlovian responses of some on here thats so funny you can get them to do anything. gay marriage and immigration good! yes have a biscuit.

there are so many unthinking responses on here its terrifying. not coming down on either side here, but the laughable lack of acknowledgement that in british history up until now same sex marriage would have been seen as utterly insane, and the view that anyone wary or uncertain about it should move out the way grandad, is childish and idiotic. good luck to a coupleof fellas who want to get married. having lived in brighton for many years i know many committed gay couples and i dont like people being bullied or victimised because of their sexuality. but this agressive like it or lump it this is the way the winds blowing attitude is nasty and unforgiving. thats my problem with this debate.

If we get too bogged down in history, nothing will ever change.

I haven't read the whole thread so I am not really sure of the unthinking, victimizing and bullying posts that you are referring to. To me it boils down to a fairly simple idea that gay people should have the same rights as straight people. If they are being disadvantaged by having civil partnerships instead of marriages then we should change things s they are not disadvantaged. How we felt about gays historically doesn't really come into it. I also don't think that people should be abused or called names for voting no, they have their reasons and fair enough (although i haven't read one that really makes sense to me yet).

My post was just a little joke about the idea being discussed on the previous page that right wing people are not as smart as left wing people.

 

[User removed 4]

I have already replied to this above, but just wonder if those who quote the Bible (Leviticus) about homosexuality also refrain from bacon sandwiches, pork sausages, roast pork, prawn cocktails, oysters and any other sort of shellfish. There was a very good article in the Guardian yesterday by Polly Toynbee on the subject pointing out this sort of stuff.

This is the point at which i cease to take you seriously in any way.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I have already replied to this above, but just wonder if those who quote the Bible (Leviticus) about homosexuality also refrain from bacon sandwiches, pork sausages, roast pork, prawn cocktails, oysters and any other sort of shellfish. There was a very good article in the Guardian yesterday by Polly Toynbee on the subject pointing out this sort of stuff.

Do people actually read the bible?

 

[BadFish]

I think the poster was assuming any readers of his text had the ability to use some common sense....................

Did he think he was on another website?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Listening to the opponents of gay marriage on tv and radio one of the things that struck me was how often they stated that "the state shouldn't define marriage". I think their logic was it should be religiously defined, but I struggle to see why in the 21st century in a secular society we should leave such an important thing to institutions who increasingly stand aside from public life.

 

[The Spanish]

Do people actually read the bible?

far more people do than read polly toynbee thank f***

 

[BadFish]

Do people actually read the bible?

As many as actually read the Guardian.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

This is the point at which i cease to take you seriously in any way.

Should I take that as a compliment? Just because one reads a certain paper or a certain journalist does not mean one falls hook line and sinker for everything they say. One can be discriminating in these things.

 

[BadFish]

Should I take that as a compliment? Just because one reads a certain paper or a certain journalist does not mean one falls hook line and sinker for everything they say. One can be discriminating in these things.

Unless you are a Daily Mail reader.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Do people actually read the bible?

Presumably people who quote the Bible actually read it, or at least have read the bit they quoted.