Gatherings of more than 6 people to be banned

[portlock seagull]

Wow. So much of this post is terrifying... considerably more so than the virus itself.

Had to double take to confirm it was a serious post. I'm pretty sure it is - this is a quintessential example of hysteria.

“Wow...” For starters, anyone who starts their sentences this way...Anyway, you’re better than that. The pandemic threatens a breakdown of society - have you thought about the consequences of that? Even more terrifying. National emergencies like this, WW2 or heaven forbid had we had a nuclear strike during the Cold War mean we don’t have time to mess about. We’ve seen many people can’t be trusted. And if, say, you’re going to carry on making a mockery of repeated requests to follow the rules by not complying - and it means you* kill vulnerable members of my family as a result - then I’m all for Police arresting you and thousands of others and Judges dishing out jail time until frankly, you learn the seriousness of the situation.

Of course, there’s is an alternative. That you do as you’re told. That’s the rub though, for so many people. They HATE being told what to do. Even when it might safe their lives. More just don’t care about anyone but themselves. Quite happy to see these people made an example of.

* by ‘you’, I of course mean ‘them’

 

[The Clamp]

This this and this again. When it comes to national emergencies of this magnitude the normal (by committee everything needs to be publicly opinion polled and consensus reached taking forever if even that soon) government approach is useless. Martial law must effectively be declared and rigorously enforced. Today’s selfish, narcissist, entitled generations need the rudest of awakenings. Do as you’re told. We’re not messing about because this disease isn’t I.e. why should you live, if you’re endangering others by showing such contempt towards and spreading? Make mass arrests, house in newly built open prisons but give them 2-4 year jail terms. Examples need to be set. Courts run through the night. Zero tolerance. Then, maybe then, people will start to take things seriously. The contempt needs to stop. It’s killing too many innocent people. Government needs to get a grip. Then the public might. Until then...well, we are where we are because of basically.

Well, while I think too many people played fast and loose during the early and later stages of lockdown, this is far too an extreme and hysterical response. You can't lock people down indefinitely. no matter how many lives it could potentially save. It's a virus. Like all other viruses we will have to learn to live with it until an effective vaccine is found. That may take years.

When AIDS was discovered in humans we didn't criminalise sex, we promoted safe sex, blood screening etc.

It's time to calm down and adjust.

Life has to return to a safe "normal". Mass arrests? Purpose built prisons? No, dear.

 

[portlock seagull]

Blimey PS. I usually see you as an interesting, balanced and articulate poster. But bloody hell. Mass arrests and 2-4 year jail sentences ?? This isn't Belarus.

Maybe put the port back in the cupboard and grab some fresh air. Its lovely out.

Ha ha, I could probably do with more drink not less. But my point is sincere, albeit assumptive I.e. I assume mass arrests only required if there’s mass disregard demonstrated. This might not be so but...Therefore we probably need a punishment most people will fear and consequently start to take the greatest threat in centuries seriously. Fines don’t work. Covidiots can’t or won’t pay em for starters. Therefore, if my vulnerable loved ones lives are threatened by your callous disregard for communal safety, then 2-4 years (1-2 in real terms) is hopefully enough time for you* to contemplate the seriousness of potentially “passing on the plague“ (!) and killing others? Of course, let’s hear what the alternatives are, if the objective is to keep the R (and death) rate down by softer means but these don’t seem to be working now people are “bored” of Covid

*Again, by you, I mean them.

 

[drew]

Well, while I think too many people played fast and loose during the early and later stages of lockdown, this is far too an extreme and hysterical response. You can't lock people down indefinitely. no matter how many lives it could potentially save. It's a virus. Like all other viruses we will have to learn to live with it until an effective vaccine is found. That may take years.

When AIDS was discovered in humans we didn't criminalise sex, we promoted safe sex, blood screening etc.

It's time to calm down and adjust.

Life has to return to a safe "normal". Mass arrests? Purpose built prisons? No, dear.

I assume by 'safe sex' that is effectively the same as wearing a mask, so to speak!

 

[beorhthelm]

“Wow...” For starters, anyone who starts their sentences this way...Anyway, you’re better than that. The pandemic threatens a breakdown of society - have you thought about the consequences of that?

your solution to a threat to society from a virus, is to threaten our society with martial law

the pandemic really does not threaten society, unless we let it through excessive response.

 

[The Clamp]

I assume by 'safe sex' that is effectively the same as wearing a mask, so to speak!

Indeed. And wearing masks/face coverings is something we should all be doing. Easy. Cheap. Effective and not really an inconvenience unless one is a wally.

 

[portlock seagull]

Well, while I think too many people played fast and loose during the early and later stages of lockdown, this is far too an extreme and hysterical response. You can't lock people down indefinitely. no matter how many lives it could potentially save. It's a virus. Like all other viruses we will have to learn to live with it until an effective vaccine is found. That may take years.

When AIDS was discovered in humans we didn't criminalise sex, we promoted safe sex, blood screening etc.

It's time to calm down and adjust.

Life has to return to a safe "normal". Mass arrests? Purpose built prisons? No, dear.

I’d say your response is hysterical, if anyone’s is. Who said indefinitely? You did. Then you’ve strolled off onto some unrelated tangent to make a poor point worse.

Anyway, bringing it back on POINT, what do you suggest we do to stop a sizeable minority from just carrying on doing what the feck they like in blatant disregard of the seriousness (and it’s likely about to get a lot lot worse with winter approaching) of this threat and by which their actions, may kill you and your family/friends? Usually, when people continue to break the law they get sent to prison so why is this different? We just need to scale up, because it seems a whole bunch of people just don’t give a feck and are happy for others, perhaps older or more vulnerable, to die. I’m not ok with that. As I’m sure you’re not, so let’s hear the alternatives?

Btw, if you arrest someone, you’ve got to put them somewhere. Especially when we’ve already run out of space. Hence the more open prisons idea, basically for these types of offenders.

 

[The Clamp]

I’d say your response is hysterical, if anyone’s is. Who said indefinitely? You did. Then you’ve strolled off onto some unrelated tangent to make a poor point worse.

Anyway, bringing it back on POINT, what do you suggest we do to stop a sizeable minority from just carrying on doing what the feck they like in blatant disregard of the seriousness (and it’s likely about to get a lot lot worse with winter approaching) of this threat and by which their actions, may kill you and your family/friends? Usually, when people continue to break the law they get sent to prison so why is this different? We just need to scale up, because it seems a whole bunch of people just don’t give a feck and are happy for others, perhaps older or more vulnerable, to die. I’m not ok with that. As I’m sure you’re not, so let’s hear the alternatives?

Btw, if you arrest someone, you’ve got to put them somewhere. Especially when we’ve already run out of space. Hence the more open prisons idea, basically for these types of offenders.

I was perfectly on point. Get some sleep. It'll all seem better in the morning.

 

[portlock seagull]

your solution to a threat to society from a virus, is to threaten our society with martial law

the pandemic really does not threaten society, unless we let it through excessive response.

‘Effectively’ martial law, yes, like we’ve had during other national emergencies. Makes getting things done, in order to safeguard the majority, easier/quicker when otherwise it wouldn’t be - to everyone’s cost. Trouble is, using that term frightens people because they’re not very bright or informed and conjure up images of dictatorships when every liberal democracy has used equivalent powers during times of national emergency as I’m sure you know. And I’m sure you’d agree, we’re living in such times. Can’t think of a bigger one since the last anyway.

 

[portlock seagull]

I was perfectly on point. Get some sleep. It'll all seem better in the morning.

No you weren’t. You also ducked answering subsequent questions to reign you back onto. But that’s ok, get some rest equally and then you can share your ideas on how best to tackle those that blatantly disregard everyone else’s safety, and many peoples lives.

 

[The Clamp]

No you weren’t. You also ducked answering subsequent questions to reign you back onto. But that’s ok, get some rest equally and then you can share your ideas on how best to tackle those that blatantly disregard everyone else’s safety, and many peoples lives.

Oh I’ll be up for many hours yet, night shift. How do we safeguard people’s lives? There’s no one solution. A series of measures, education and common sense is best.

I’m not in favour of prison for people who ignore lockdown laws. In fact large prison populations in a pandemic could well be counter productive. Plus you’ll have large swathes of the population coming out of the pandemic with criminal records, hardly a boost to the economy.

Ideally large gatherings would be broken up. As they already are where safe and where practical. I don’t agree with large gatherings at this time but I disagree with mass arrests even more strongly.

The cold truth is, until there is a working vaccine and an effective vaccine program, people are going to die of Covid 19. It’s unavoidable.

Local lockdowns are a good idea.

As I say, indefinite lockdown is unrealistic. And indefinite it would be, until a vaccine is created.

We need to get industry going, we need to get diagnosis and treatments for serious illnesses back on track, we need to get kids back into education.

Vulnerable people should self isolate. That would be a huge help. Others need to get back on with life.

Covid 19 is now a part of life and will be for the foreseeable, we can’t live in fear behind closed doors indefinitely.

NB
I was perfectly on point but my AIDS comparison didn’t fit your narrative.

 

[portlock seagull]

Oh I’ll be up for many hours yet, night shift. How do we safeguard people’s lives? There’s no one solution. A series of measures, education and common sense is best.

I’m not in favour of prison for people who ignore lockdown laws. In fact large prison populations in a pandemic could well be counter productive.

Ideally large gatherings would be broken up. As they already are where safe and where practical. I don’t agree with large gatherings at this time but I disagree with mass arrests even more strongly.

The cold truth is, until there is a working vaccine and an effective vaccine program, people are going to die of Covid 19. It’s unavoidable.

Local lockdowns are a good idea.

As I say, indefinite lockdown is unrealistic. And indefinite it would be, until a vaccine is created.

We need to get industry going, we need to get diagnosis and treatments for serious illnesses back on track, we need to get kids back into education.

Vulnerable people should self isolate. That would be a huge help. Others need to get back on with life.

Covid 19 is now a part of life and will be for the foreseeable, we can’t live in fear behind closed doors indefinitely.

NB
I was perfectly on point but my AIDS comparison didn’t fit your narrative.

AIDS didn’t fit the narrative. But I am in favour of arresting and imprisoning more people than currently think they won’t be to get the message through. The contempt is shocking. It’s this belief, and the law can largely be ignored these days that is a big part of the problem. So send a message, make some examples. As judges do daily for many crimes. Only on a larger scale. Because this merits that. Cheers for debating TC, I’m off to get that recommenced sleep! Have a good shift.

 

[The Clamp]

AIDS didn’t fit the narrative. But I am in favour of arresting and imprisoning more people than currently think they won’t be to get the message through. The contempt is shocking. It’s this belief, and the law can largely be ignored these days that is a big part of the problem. So send a message, make some examples. As judges do daily for many crimes. Only on a larger scale. Because this merits that. Cheers for debating TC, I’m off to get that recommenced sleep! Have a good shift.

I agree to a point. I’d like to see the arrogance stopped but I think human nature dictates that is not going to happen.

Nevertheless, a good discussion. Sleep well.

 

[Easy 10]

This is ridiculous. A measured, respectful and courteous exchange on NSC ? I'm out.

You've changed. You've all changed.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

Vulnerable people should self isolate. That would be a huge help. Others need to get back on with life.

When you say self isolate, I assume, and please excuse my presumption if I’m wrong, that you mean “shield”?

So it is ok for over 2 million vulnerable people to be locked up 24/7, but not for the general population to show a little restraint.

Also, who picks up the bill for the vulnerable, as from August 1st they were expected to return to work...

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

From :

Don’t think so, this is just another minor scare. All these periodic viruses rarely kill more than a few nun died worldwide yet the media goes nuts about 2 deaths in China, a country with 3 billion people. I bet 2 people fell off ladders and died in China in last hour alone. Nah, seen and heard enough of these ‘outbreaks’ during my life to know this will pass without too much alarm. Yes I am being complacent but only because I’m right. We love an end of the world is nigh story and Hollywood has an awful lot to answer for!

To :

This this and this again. When it comes to national emergencies of this magnitude the normal (by committee everything needs to be publicly opinion polled and consensus reached taking forever if even that soon) government approach is useless. Martial law must effectively be declared and rigorously enforced. Today’s selfish, narcissist, entitled generations need the rudest of awakenings. Do as you’re told. We’re not messing about because this disease isn’t I.e. why should you live, if you’re endangering others by showing such contempt towards and spreading? Make mass arrests, house in newly built open prisons but give them 2-4 year jail terms. Examples need to be set. Courts run through the night. Zero tolerance. Then, maybe then, people will start to take things seriously. The contempt needs to stop. It’s killing too many innocent people. Government needs to get a grip. Then the public might. Until then...well, we are where we are because of basically.

That's quite a journey.

 

[Albion Dan]

Where’s [MENTION=316]Albion Dan[/MENTION] when you need him...

Oh don’t worry I’m here smiling to myself observing as people openly advocate martial law and prison sentences for people who meet other people. I’d recommend watching less Piers Morgan.

Meanwhile in Sweden....

 

[Ludensian Gull]

17 months ago I was having three days of Cyber Knife treatment at the Royal Marsden.
This was after having a 22mm tumor removed from my brain
Had the results from my latest MRI scan today - all clear.
Tell your Dad to be positive it helps

Good to hear the scan results where clear Simmo, must be a weight off your mind hearing that news .

 

[Guinness Boy]

From :



To :





That's quite a journey.

It's one I've been on, though not to quite those extremes, though I think that's the way ps expresses himself, which is his right.

In January / early February we were dealing with a whole incorrect set of assumptions. It certailnly seems the Chinese had discovered the virus late and then downplayed it. The thought that this was a few local deaths in Wuhan was based on what we were being told then. A good local lockdown, stopping flights from China to anywhere (shame that didn't happen) and the thing was nipped in the bud, so we thought. A bit like SARS.

In fact it's likely it had been out there for months and there were people in skiing resorts in Europe sharing drinks and cramped hotels during half term and then flying back to God knows where. Hidden somewhere on this thread is the story that the first UK death was as early as December 2019. I don't believe we've found "patient zero". One contender would be my mate's colleague who has relatives in Wuhan and returned from there in December and got pneumonia, resulting in a ventilator, before New Year's Eve.

The terrifying thing is that we were not dealing with fully understood facts then and we are not now, several months later. On balance though, I prefer to trust science to give me the facts, even if they arrive in arrears, than busking politicians and conspiracy theorists with an agenda.

And, as with my reply to Easy10, let's either have a properly enforced lockdown with real action and let's have proper test and trace, or let's not bother at all. Half measures seem to be availing us of nothing.

 

[spongy]

17 months ago I was having three days of Cyber Knife treatment at the Royal Marsden.
This was after having a 22mm tumor removed from my brain
Had the results from my latest MRI scan today - all clear.
Tell your Dad to be positive it helps

He's got 3 20mm tumours in different places so inoperable. Praying radiotherapy will work. Oncologist said he was confident. And I have to believe him.