Gary Lineker in a spot of bother

[Dub-67]

You seem to have completely missed the point between science, and our understanding of science.

I do seem to have not accpeted certain basic tenants of science, which others accept in blind faith.

Science doesnt infact even have a proper therory of how consciousness is produced.

How can it in fact? Its impossible to study consciousness objectively. How can consciousness explain itself?
Science has limits... it cant answer the most fundamental of questions.

 

[Biscuit]

How can it in fact? Its impossible to study consciousness objectively. How can consciousness explain itself?
Science has limits... it cant answer the most fundamental of questions.

Religion can?

 

[Husty]

Science doesnt infact even have a proper therory of how consciousness is produced.

Science will admit when it doesn't have the answer, religion just makes one up.

 

[Biscuit]

Science doesnt infact even have a proper therory of how consciousness is produced.

How can it in fact? Its impossible to study consciousness objectively. How can consciousness explain itself?
Science has limits... it cant answer the most fundamental of questions.

Science will admit when it doesn't have the answer, religion just makes one up.

There appears to be trail of thought that suggest consciousness is a fantastical, mystical and unexplainable thing. I have no idea if this belief is born from arrogance, need or hope. As I understand it, if the human race doesn't understand the workings of something they can react in one of two ways.

They can a) admit it's outside their current understanding but strive to study, theorise, hypothesise and test.

or they can b) chalk it up to something supernatural.

It seems outrageously arrogant to suggest that if you don't understand it it's clearly not possible for anyone too, possibly ever.

I wonder where we'd be as a race if we'd always taken option b)?

 

[Triggaaar]

There appears to be trail of thought that suggest consciousness is a fantastical, mystical and unexplainable thing. I have no idea if this belief is born from arrogance, need or hope. As I understand it, if the human race doesn't understand the workings of something they can react in one of two ways.

They can a) admit it's outside their current understanding but strive to study, theorise, hypothesise and test.

or they can b) chalk it up to something supernatural.

It seems outrageously arrogant to suggest that if you don't understand it it's clearly not possible for anyone too, possibly ever.

I wonder where we'd be as a race if we'd always taken option b)?

Indeed.

 

[Dub-67]

Religion can?

No I dont think so, I'm with the Sioux Indians on this... The Great Mystery... I dont believe in Religion, and I dont believe in Science either.

 

[Deleted member 18477]

Gary Lineker is a dork!

 

[Dub-67]

Science will admit when it doesn't have the answer, religion just makes one up.

Science doesnt really admit it though.. it just keeps going pretending that eventually it will be able to explian everything.. it cant, neither can religion.

Do you know that science doenst even really know what 'electricity' is for example. It can describe it, but it doesnt really 'know' what it is. Nor does it know what 'gravity' is.. Science describes thhings using previously agreed mental constructs..

 

[Dub-67]

It seems outrageously arrogant to suggest that if you don't understand it it's clearly not possible for anyone too, possibly ever.

Its actually the exact opposite of arrogance to suggest that there are certain things we will never know.. its humility to accept that.

 

[Dub-67]

Science is a religion. Its just that the followers dont realise it.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Science will admit when it doesn't have the answer, religion just makes one up.

Deeply informed comment.... not.

A necessary part of faith is doubt. If there is no doubt, it is certainty, not faith.

Some people of science seem to lose all reasonableness in support of what they believe - or don't believe.

 

[beorhthelm]

Science doesnt really admit it though.. it just keeps going pretending that eventually it will be able to explian everything.. it cant, neither can religion.

Do you know that science doenst even really know what 'electricity' is for example. It can describe it, but it doesnt really 'know' what it is.

are you having a laugh? its the movement of electrons. theres an awful lot of very sophisticated stuff built upon it for it to be unknown. they wouldnt be able to corral electrons though nanometer scale constructions of silicon and other semiconductor materials, making this communication possible, if they didnt understand what they were working with.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Gary Linekar would be an excellent presenter if given free rein without the BBC autocue.

 

[Dub-67]

are you having a laugh? its the movement of electrons. theres an awful lot of very sophisticated stuff built upon it for it to be unknown. they wouldnt be able to corral electrons though nanometer scale constructions of silicon and other semiconductor materials, making this communication possible, if they didnt understand what they were working with.

No, I'm not having a laugh... As I said, science can describe what electricity does and how it behaves.. but it doesnt actually know what it is. You say 'the movement of electrons'.

First.. what is an electron. No one has seen one, or even put a finger on one. According to quantum mechanics its actually impossible to actually say where and electron is . The best description of electrons now is that they are 'clouds of probability' you can predict where you think one might be.. thats about it. What people seem to miss is that Science is based on theories.. It is based on 'ideas' and 'constructs'.

You also say the 'movement of electrons' , well they dont actually move either. For example you might imagine that when you turn a light on that the electrons 'flow along it' like a river.. That is a 'construct' which enables us to picture what we think is going on.

Science has done a good job of convincing us that it understands all this, but actually it doesnt. It just describes events in its own language. To say what electricity is, you need to invoke other terms.. like its the flow of electrons.. I then ask 'what are electrons'. It turns out electrons are described as 'fundamental' , an electron is described by a wavefunction, which can be used to find a probability distribution for its detection or interaction. Notice the word 'probability' no fact.. just probability. They also say its 'negatively charged' but what does that actually mean? The understanding of the Universe is all a lot more murky that people generally believe.

 

[Husty]

No, I'm not having a laugh... As I said, science can describe what electricity does and how it behaves.. but it doesnt actually know what it is. You say 'the movement of electrons'.

First.. what is an electron. No one has seen one, or even put a finger on one. According to quantum mechanics its actually impossible to actually say where and electron is . The best description of electrons now is that they are 'clouds of probability' you can predict where you think one might be.. thats about it. What people seem to miss is that Science is based on theories.. It is based on 'ideas' and 'constructs'.

You also say the 'movement of electrons' , well they dont actually move either. For example you might imagine that when you turn a light on that the electrons 'flow along it' like a river.. That is a 'construct' which enables us to picture what we think is going on.

Science has done a good job of convincing us that it understands all this, but actually it doesnt. It just describes events in its own language. To say what electricity is, you need to invoke other terms.. like its the flow of electrons.. I then ask 'what are electrons'. It turns out electrons are described as 'fundamental' , an electron is described by a wavefunction, which can be used to find a probability distribution for its detection or interaction. Notice the word 'probability' no fact.. just probability. They also say its 'negatively charged' but what does that actually mean? The understanding of the Universe is all a lot more murky that people generally believe.

Where does NSC find these people? Brunswick was bad enough but these sort of nutters now seem to be multiplying.

 

[Dub-67]

Where does NSC find these people? Brunswick was bad enough but these sort of nutters now seem to be multiplying.

This is Brighton mate.. there are thinkers down here... Its not like Leeds... thank god.

Sorry you dont understand, maybe a little too complex for you. Dont worry about it though... have some chips !

 

[Husty]

This is Brighton mate.. there are thinkers down here... Its not like Leeds... thank god.

Sorry you dont understand, maybe a little too complex for you. Dont worry about it though... have some chips !

JCLs...

 

[Dub-67]

http://youtu.be/r4SLOr2icnY

I dont like JLS myself mate, I'm a bit old for that.

Seeing as you cant understand the written word, maybe you can watch a video... with your chips... but turn the sound down if its too complex, and put on some JLS

 

[Garage_Doors]

I dont like JLS myself mate, I'm a bit old for that.

Seeing as you cant understand the written word, maybe you can watch a video... with your chips... but turn the sound down if its too complex, and put on some JLS

Are you slic dexic?

 

[Dub-67]

wot Husty's not a big JLS fan ?!?