[Football] Gareth Southgate: 90 minutes to save his job?

[zefarelly]

Probably sums up my broad position. I've very little emotional investment in the England side. I enjoy it when we progress through a tournament as I'll always watch the games but once we go out I'm over it within minutes. I've yet to find a tournament defeat leads to me ripping the bonnet badge off neighbour's my BMW or pissing over the windscreen of the Renault Scenic down the road but maybe this is the year?

If we survive another week in the tournament, please remind Icy and me to garage our Alfa Romeos

 

[Poojah]

The first tournament I am old enough to remember watching is Euro 92 - this is the list of permanent England (or semi-permanent in the case of Sam Allardyce) managers from then onwards:

Graham Taylor
Terry Venables
Glenn Hoddle
Kevin Keegan
Sven-Göran Eriksson
Steve McClaren
Fabio Capello
Roy Hodgson
Sam Allardyce
Gareth Southgate

Looking down that list, there aren't many who you can make an argument for having done better than Southgate. Venables gave us the memories of Euro 96 certainly, but even then I'm not sure we were 'brilliant' with the exception of the Netherlands game. Hoddle did ok to a point but became an absolute nutjob and Sven was reasonable without ever taking us past the quarter finals of a tournament in three attempts. The rest were unmitigated disasters in their own unique ways.

Excluding Big Sam's one game, Southgate has a higher win percentage (63.2%) than any of them with only Sven coming close. It's easy to underestimate the job he's done in my opinion, particularly when you think back to how he's galvanised the chaotic and fractured England set-up he inherited, and we shouldn't be too quick to wish him out of a job.

Barring a humiliating exit in the last 16 he should keep his job regardless. All ifs and buts of course - personally I'm confident we'll progress further than the next round.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Certainly that was the case after the first game (I was around).

Congratulations

Stiles should have been sent off and banned for his tackle on Simon in the French game, and people did moan about selections, and but isn't that always the case? Certainly leaving out Jimmy Greaves for Geoff Hurst caused discussions. From memory Hurst had only made his debut in March 1966 and the final was only his 7th or 8th cap. Greaves was a goal-scoring legend.

That's rather the point though. Even if we were playing well, people would find something to moan about. Particularly on here where Southgate never had much credit to begin with.

And no, I'm not arguing we're playing well bar patches of each game. But my expectations of how well this team could successfully play aren't terribly high either.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Group F is wide open, you’ll also need to consider smashing up your local Nandos and snapping a biro in half.

And don't forget to crush a grape!

 

[BadFish]

The first tournament I am old enough to remember watching is Euro 92 - this is the list of permanent England (or semi-permanent in the case of Sam Allardyce) managers from then onwards:

Graham Taylor
Terry Venables
Glenn Hoddle
Kevin Keegan
Sven-Göran Eriksson
Steve McClaren
Fabio Capello
Roy Hodgson
Sam Allardyce
Gareth Southgate

Looking down that list, there aren't many who you can make an argument for having done better than Southgate. Venables gave us the memories of Euro 96 certainly, but even then I'm not sure we were 'brilliant' with the exception of the Netherlands game. Hoddle did ok to a point but became an absolute nutjob and Sven was reasonable without ever taking us past the quarter finals of a tournament in three attempts. The rest were unmitigated disasters in their own unique ways.

Excluding Big Sam's one game, Southgate has a higher win percentage (63.2%) than any of them with only Sven coming close. It's easy to underestimate the job he's done in my opinion, particularly when you think back to how he's galvanised the chaotic and fractured England set-up he inherited, and we shouldn't be too quick to wish him out of a job.

Barring a humiliating exit in the last 16 he should keep his job regardless. All ifs and buts of course - personally I'm confident we'll progress further than the next round.

I watched the second half of the Czech game this morning and was feeling a bit forlorn about our styles of play. Especially after watching the Scotland game. However, I watched the first half when I got back from work and was pretty impressed. Grealish and Saka looked really good and the goal was quality.

Southgate has done a good job. He appears to have the player's backing. I think we should give him a while longer.

The ****wits booing our players taking the knee though . . . they can do one. Totally embarrassing.

As is the song you are all going to be expected to sing to your giant portraits of Boris. What the **** is going on over there?

 

[southstandandy]

We (England) might be boring as F**k but if we win playing this way will anybody really complain?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

In fairness to Southgate, the format doesn't help as even after going 1-0 the Czech's showed little attaking intent that they would need to have done if they had to finish in the top 2 which would have made it a more open game. That said, watching Calvin rob the ball off Slab head just outside our box with the Czech's camped in thier half and as much movement above him as a statue contest, Walker afraid to go past the half way line and Harry Kane playing anywhere but the oppo box had me reaching for a can of meths. We have a team of bright, young attacking players who look like they've been transported to 1994 and coached by Graham Taylor.

Hopefully a knock out game against a German team who will come at us will make a better game and perfromance.

 

[dazzer6666]

Congratulations



That's rather the point though. Even if we were playing well, people would find something to moan about. Particularly on here where Southgate never had much credit to begin with.

And no, I'm not arguing we're playing well bar patches of each game. But my expectations of how well this team could successfully play aren't terribly high either.

I set low expectations and we're failing to achieve them

 

[nicko31]

England only ever win big knockout games at Wembley, winning last night was a huge plus with added bonus of 45k for next game

If we lose though it won't be the end of Southgate though

 

[AmexRuislip]

Yes, England qualified for the R16 top of their group, undefeated and without conceding a goal. This is undoubtedly mission accomplished and a big tick in the box. In interviews the players have responded to a growing undercurrent of disquiet about the unambitious style and lack of chances and goals by talking about the unique demands and 'safety-first' objectives of tournament football. This is fair enough.

But the tournament football phase has ended and from here on in we are playing knock-out football. If England had played the group games with a little more elan and swagger and piled up some more goals in the 'goals for' column then I reckon a R16 exit against one of the tournament powerhouses would be regarded as disappointing but at least we gave the EUROs a good go. But the dour nature of the Group performances as England huffed and puffed sideways around Wembley with just 2 goals from 3 games, doesn't leave much room for Southgate to hide and claim he is still the right man for the job if we exit the EUROs next Tuesday.

Of course, win next week - even if it's another 1-0 snoozefest - and on we go to the quarter finals.

If we had Elan up front instead of the Eoarh, we'd have a chance v France, Germany or Portugal.
Out next round im afraid

 

[Napper]

Joke thread. Strolled the group in 4th gear

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

I set low expectations and we're failing to achieve them

 

[McTavish]

Group F is wide open, you’ll also need to consider smashing up your local Nandos and snapping a biro in half.

Nandos is originally South African. I think you would need to smash all the Port on the shelves of your local supermarket or luzz some Pastel de Nata.

 

[drew]

England's current style of play reflects southgate's personality, boring. He got the job by default on the back of an unconvincing stint with the U21s. Prior to that he had failed at Middlesbrough before taking a 4 year sabbatical.

That said, I don't think failing to get past the last 16 will tempt the FA suits to ditch him and I doubt that Southgate would walk as he's on a nice contract that he's unlikely, based on his record, to match anywhere else.

 

[Lethargic]

For me England are in a similar position to Brighton 2 years ago at the end the Houghton era, we were doing enough but the football was absolutely turgid and most Brighton fans were calling for a change as there was no excitement.

I have never rated Southgate as a coach and never will he is simply driving his Ferrari to drop off his granny at the shops and has no idea how to get out of second gear, England have a good chance to challenge this tournament with these players but its seems that we are content to continue with average, a missed opportunity, this does not mean I don't support England but I just feel it will be "what if" after the tournament.

To the OP point he will not lose his job, group qualification will be enough for the FA.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Playing 2 DM’s is basically saying “we won’t concede but hopefully we can nick one”. That is so depressing when you look at the players we have. I could understand it against France or Germany but against Scotland and the Czech Republic. FFS.


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[Brovion]

Congratulations



That's rather the point though. Even if we were playing well, people would find something to moan about. Particularly on here where Southgate never had much credit to begin with.

And no, I'm not arguing we're playing well bar patches of each game. But my expectations of how well this team could successfully play aren't terribly high either.

Yes, fair comment. The point I was trying to make is that apart from debate in newspapers and pubs about whether Greaves should play or whether Ramsey should use wingers, the vibe around the national side was overwhelmingly positive. Moans about individual results notwithstanding the one thing that is TOTALLY different today is the number of English football fans (that is people who follow football who are English) who say they don't care, aren't that interested or have completely lost interest in the national side - and that's before you factor in the people who are English but cheerfully admit they support another country. That simply wasn't the case in 1966; everyone was 100% enthusiastic and 100% committed to England.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Probably sums up my broad position. I've very little emotional investment in the England side. I enjoy it when we progress through a tournament as I'll always watch the games but once we go out I'm over it within minutes. I've yet to find a tournament defeat leads to me ripping the bonnet badge off neighbour's my BMW or pissing over the windscreen of the Renault Scenic down the road but maybe this is the year?

Yes, I find all the stories about oaves attacking a Spaniard thinking he was Italian after Italy knock us out of a tournament rather peculiar. For a small minority the England team are an extension of themselves, all their hopes and dreams, their genes, their inheritance, their entitlement.

Come on. It's only football. It isn't war.

Back to the main topic, I am going to stick up for Southgit, momentarily. He picked young Sako yesterday when none of his predecessors would have considered it. Bellingham, too. Yes we expect Grealish to start every game now, but there's no point having him kicked (literally) out of the tournament by the clodhopping opposition in the group stage (yes, I'm talking about the jocks).

The one thing that does worry me is his tendency to play individuals out of position. FFS only play them in the positions they play for their clubs! Does he think he's smarter than the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, and Simeone?

Oh hang on, must rush, it sounds like Russia have just declared war

 

[Ecosse Exile]

Excuses coming out already, expecting England to lose to the first decent team they play, that is exactly why Southgate will still be in a job after the sun goes down on Englands hopes, should i even call it hopes? The bar seems to be set so low.

Yes you won the group, well done, yes you got 7 points out of 9, again well done and you haven't conceded, fantastic, but were you really expecting less? Because i expected you to win the group with at the very least 7 points, you had 3 home games against, in my opinion, weeker opposition. Only Croatia should have been capable of giving you any sort of test.

What i didn't expect was England to set up so negatively, two defensive midfielders and full backs who must have been instructed not to venture too far forward, because every one of them does so regularly at club level. A wealth of attacking talent that is mostly sat on their arses warming the bench, while you hope to nick a goal from a set piece, that is bad management.

This England squad is capable of so much more, you should be soundly beating my own country and the Czechs, neither have anywhere near the talent you have, but instead you are setting up to protect a suspect centre back pairing and as a result failing to beat Scotland and (i didn't watch your game last night but from what i hear) looking far from inspiring against the Czechs. If England had played to their strengths and got the results they are capable of, you wouldn't be fearing the French, Germans and Portuguese, you would be thinking bring it on! And they would probably be fearing you.

Now though expectations have been lowered, you expect to lose in the next round and even a backs to the wall defensive performance and getting through on penalties will be seen as good, and if you lose.... Well, it was expected, wasn't it? Wasn't it? No it bloody well shouldn't be, this England team is at least as good as Germany and far better than Portugal, you might need a bit of luck with the French, but then again, on the day anything can happen. But not if you set up the way you have so far, that, in my opinion has been disgraceful and there is only one man to blame, but for the reasons i stated earlier, he will probably still be your manager at the world cup next year and then he can do it all over again.

 

[nicko31]

For me England are in a similar position to Brighton 2 years ago at the end the Houghton era, we were doing enough but the football was absolutely turgid and most Brighton fans were calling for a change as there was no excitement.

I have never rated Southgate as a coach and never will he is simply driving his Ferrari to drop off his granny at the shops and has no idea how to get out of second gear, England have a good chance to challenge this tournament with these players but its seems that we are content to continue with average, a missed opportunity, this does not mean I don't support England but I just feel it will be "what if" after the tournament.

To the OP point he will not lose his job, group qualification will be enough for the FA.

Like the parallels with CH, priority no.1 don't concede

Southgate is safe, if we lose in the next game I'd be surprised if we got thumped