[Albion] Garcia's reasons for leaving (from today's Argus, per Andy Naylor)

[Seagulltonian]

I think we are going to get other teams cast-offs on loan again next season, because the players' Clubs' pay a big chunk of the wages when they came down here, and that is the only way were going to be able to afford to bolster the squad in 2014/15, with so many players out of contract.

The other thing with the way season long loans work is that it appears "the coach/manager" has absolutely no choice and has to pick these players week in week out if they are fit, and hence again not really having major control of setting up a team with your own players, and having players playing that maybe aren't comitted completely to the cause. We need to be signing our own players. We must be able with our scouting network to find some quality young players?

I think it's going to be another 3/4 seasons of quite high finishes and missing out on promotion, until we can start producing players through the acadamey that we can have as our backbone of a team for hopefully the very near future, and maybe win something with kids!

Looking at Roy Hodgson's selections for the England squad yesterday got me thinking that could be us in a few years. A nucleus of a few experienced players, but mostly a young squad that will play together for a few years and grow together as a team, and who knows what might happen with them as a team??

I just hope our next manager has a bigger say than Oscar has had about what players he'd like to sign. Ironically I think if the budget is slightly stretched, and the Premership happens for us, how much extra money will that mean to the club for a little outlay? As the saying goes, you have to speculate to accumulate!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Well that's pretty much what everyone has been thinking, now we can't let this happen a third time. Tony needs to seriously look at the club and the way it is run from top to bottom, and ask can we realistically challenge for promotion with the set up, and budget provided or are we on auto pilot until say ten years time when the academy is in full swing and churning out super stars....

Even if we are, unless there's a radical re-think in the wage structure, we're unlikely to retain any future stars. We'll go back to being a feeder club for Norwich.

 

[Mackenzie]

Well Burke must be doing something right, we've finished in a play off position two years running.

I think its players and managers who need to get real about money. The fact that we can't get anywhere near breaking even given our support and consumption is a pretty damning indictment of where second tier football is right now. Something has to change.

 

[shaolinpunk]

I think we are going to get other teams cast-offs on loan again next season, because the players' Clubs' pay a big chunk of the wages when they came down here, and that is the only way were going to be able to afford to bolster the squad in 2014/15, with so many players out of contract.

Not as big a chunk now that FFP is around.

 

[Screaming J]

I wouldn't. The current structure doesn't work in England. You could put the director of football wages and benefits plus the cost of recruiting a new manager every May in to the playing budget as a bonus.

Not sure I agree. The alternative can mean a manager agreeing all sorts of expensive shite just to sign a player they've got the hots for, completely screwing up the budget and before you know it, hello Portsmouth or even the Albion after 83/4. Having the structure we have reduces this risk. It may not be what we are traditionally used to; but for now I don't have a problem with it.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Well what Oscar is saying via the Argus and Naylor is the polar opposite of what I've heard from a what I would call a reliable source.

Now I'm not saying either is 100% correct but I don't believe either are 100% wrong either. There is more to this than Oscar's view and although he clearly had issues with the recruiting process which must be investigated I also believe some of the problems are of his own making.

This is where I'm at, too. People won't want to hear it though. Some would rather have a big stick to beat the club with.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I hope all of those posters who have dammed Oscar as a crap boring coach have a really good look at themselves. Personally I have championed Oscar, the same way I supported Gus. TB needs to have a really good look at what is going on in the background, especially if the Grabban story is true.
Who to replace Oscar, there is only one Englishman I would trust, Glenn Hoddle

Agree with all that, except possibly the Hoddle bit.

 

[Stat Brother]

I wouldn't. The current structure doesn't work in England. You could put the director of football wages and benefits plus the cost of recruiting a new manager every May in to the playing budget as a bonus.

A grammatical error on my part:-

I'd be gutted if Tony decided losing 1 manager is unfortunate, losing 2 is unacceptable, to return to a more conventional chairman/manager structure, now, it would feel like it's all a little to late as Oscar walks off to the horizon.

It would appear what we currently have, although makes sense, isn't working out.
Had Gus left in the style of Oscar (I'm letting his histrionics cloud my judgement) I'd be saying that's 2 top quality managers we've let walk.
It would seem like the ultimate in shutting the stable door, not only after the horse has bolted, but is just about to win the Grand National, for which I would be gutted.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Well what Oscar is saying via the Argus and Naylor is the polar opposite of what I've heard from a what I would call a reliable source.

Now I'm not saying either is 100% correct but I don't believe either are 100% wrong either. There is more to this than Oscar's view and although he clearly had issues with the recruiting process which must be investigated I also believe some of the problems are of his own making.

While not wanting to judge anything, I am a firm believer that there are two sides to every story.

But I think most of all that this is a sad ending. I think Oscar could have taken us onwards and upwards if things within the club had worked better..... and that is not necessarily just about money.

 

[Grassman]

No money for players but the club can afford to develop a hotel at the Amex?

Which part of Tony Bloom will spend money on infrastructure but not break FFP rules on players do you not understand? Are you too thick to realise that building a hotel may bring in extra revenue in the long term then? Clearly yes.

 

[supaseagull]

Excerpts from an in-depth piece by Naylor in today's Argus.

"Seeds sown well before humbling in play-offs"



Naylor then mentions that Daily Telegraph article that originally quoted Garcia as saying the budget went down. Bloom around the same time in an interview on the official site stated that the budget had been slightly increased. The Telegraph article was subsequently changed. Naylor suggests Garcia felt the club's hierarchy needed to be more transparent about the financial conditions he was working under and reflect that accordingly with levels of expectation for the team.

I have said in a number of threads this season from what I've been led to believe from people in coaching circles that Oscar had no say whatsoever in transfers we made this season and was laughed at or criticised.

As I mentioned before, we have a number of scouts operating around the UK and Europe and they all report into the Director of Football by providing lists of players. That DofE then decides from that list what the Head Coach is "provided with" - The Head Coach was just that and that's why it was always hard to criticise him especially when his assistant had more of a say in transfers.

I've also said and it's been proven that Directors of football no longer have a place in the set up of English football clubs and there are no examples of these roles being successful in recent years, especially when that Director of Football has no experience of playing at a decent standard.

However, this Isnt just a complete slagging off of Burke as what he has done well is completely change the set up behind the scenes of the centres of excellence, academies and youth set up and he is partly responsible for the success that Southampton are having at the moment with the players coming through their youth set up and it really did need it. He has also helped oversee the facilities that the club will have at the training ground and everything around that.

However, if the club want to be successful on the pitch then they need to appoint a Manager, and not a Head Coach, who is able to recruit the players they want and not who they are given and who won't play. Perhaps then, with the players we have at the club then instead of losing out in the play offs, we can be possibly putting our feet up knowing that we are playing the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs.

 

[Stat Brother]

Well Burke must be doing something right, we've finished in a play off position two years running

It would appear that for this season, at least, that was more to do with Oscar despite Burke.
Who is working in the name of Tony Bloom.

 

[El Presidente]

Who to replace Oscar, there is only one Englishman I would trust, Glenn Hoddle

I wouldn't say that if I was in a wheelchair.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's long been a concern of mine that we can't afford to operate and certainly not compete on the returns the AMEX provides.

Given the number of season ticket holders the club has, and the number of pies and pints consumed, there must be something seriously wrong with the basic business model then. Short of substantially raising ticket prices, there wouldn't seem to be a lot of leeway for bumping up the revenue. Unless of course, we can attract and retain the playing talent to get us to the gravy train of the Premier League. And that means ripping up the current wage structure.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

This is where I'm at, too. People won't want to hear it though. Some would rather have a big stick to beat the club with.

I tend to agree but there is no smoke without fire and we have had two managers leaving after making the play-offss saying very similar things and I cant fault Oscar with the way he's behaved even if I can with Gus. Either there IS something wrong with the club, or there is a serious misunderstanding which is being repeated with manager and club or we have chosen two managers who are too big for their boots... which is a club mistake.

Not beating the club... we live and learn and the club admin is still relatively inexperienced together. We just need to match our ambition with out resource sand work accordingly. Becoming a regular play-offs type team for a few years while the infrastructure is put together and then pushing for the premiership will be a dream come true for me. Perhaps getting into the premiership too soon may result in losing everything weve worked for.

 

[The Sock of Poskett]

No great surprise there. Didn't take the brains of an archbishop to work out that OG's hands were tied re new players. When those sub standard players were signed, many on here said that OG must have been in agreement. Well that clearly wasn't the case. Burke has signed some good ones, but just as many crap ones. Hopefully TB will now have a rethink about the clubs player recruitment policy.

"Brains of an archbishop"? Frankly, I doubt most of us have the brains of the current archbishop, but still ...

 

[Seagulltonian]

Not as big a chunk now that FFP is around.

I have absolutely no ideas on figures, but I'm guessing your average premiership loanee is on about £25K a week, and his club would possibly pay £20K of it? That's still a big saving over the season, than having your own player on £10K?

Please if anyone has a better idea of the true figures that it costs for a loan player, I would be very interested to hear

 

[Bold Seagull]

Given the number of season ticket holders the club has, and the number of pies and pints consumed, there must be something seriously wrong with the basic business model then.

Yes indeed, the basic business model for the whole of football is basically flawed.

 

[somerset]

And Malkys done what exactly? Spent £10m in the summer before Cardiff got promoted, bought the league, and was then on course for relegation before getting sacked.

He largely got the push because of clashes with Tan,.... he had a decent record until then, promotion, League Cup final, play-offs,..... his style of play was good too. As for buying the promotion, he did spend big on Bellamy's wages, but other than that was probably comparable to several other teams in that division.

 

[Grassman]

I think its players and managers who need to get real about money. The fact that we can't get anywhere near breaking even given our support and consumption is a pretty damning indictment of where second tier football is right now. Something has to change.

True. So very true. Christ, most of us moan about overpaid footballers, yet there appear to be a majority of people on this Forum who are all for making them even richer. Not using their own money though, of course.