Full national lockdown (not education) 4/11 - 1/12 possible

[darkwolf666]

I wonder what my wife being seen as collateral damage will do to my mental health...

 

[darkwolf666]

Aye..but then there are people dying now because of mental health issues

What, more people dying of mental health issues caused by Covid NOW, then people dying from Covid NOW?

Would like to see the stats to back that claim up...

 

[beorhthelm]

It's not, though. The week of the study, they were saying new incidents in ENGLAND were 96,000 per day. (Kings/Zoe 43,000 for the UK). ONS data was 52,000 for the UK.
Yes, Kings/Zoe is based on people reporting symptoms so add on 20%, but that is still closer than Sage/ReACT.

be serious, dont say its not accurate then throw a random "add on 20%" to the Zoe data. the "Re" in ReACT is for real-time, even if the study isn't reported daily, its fieldwork with actual tests, not people reporting they have a cough.

 

[darkwolf666]

That is both selfish and unethical.

Surely the real collateral damage are those who lose their lives as a result of Covid related restrictions.

WTF, how the **** is it unethical for me to feel that way? What ethics?

 

[Hampster Gull]

It’s an impossible position....
If we don’t lockdown, case numbers (and ultimately deaths) will continue to explode upwards

We can’t simply shield the vulnerable and let the rest get back to normal. For a start, 26% of men and 29% of women in the UK are classified as obese (with 60%+ being overweight) so immediately more than a quarter of adults evidently need to shield.....add to that other medical conditions etc and the number required to shield is huge to allow ‘the rest of us’ to crack on.

Fair point but it would be good that the government reviewed that and other options and were clearer on why they are choosing the path they are. There are other options than the Hokey Cokey, e.g. the New Zealand that means ****ing getting on it, full lockdown long enough to kills it, managing your borders with the army in charge, etc. Another is segmenting the problem.

Without transparency people will challenge. I don’t buy the there are too many people argument from what I’ve seen to date, although I fully accept the case may exist. But without the government’s transparency....There are 2.2m are on the clinically extremely vulnerable list getting further guidance from the government. The average number of people per household is 2.4, so without better data that’s just over 5m people. To those who are obese or overweight there is a recommendation from the NHS that we all know , lose weight, eat less calories, exercise more etc. For the vast majority it’s a choice they are in those categories, for those that have medical issues add them to the clinically extremely vulnerable list via the GP. Oh, and only 58% of those in the clinically extremely vulnerable category are bothering to comply with all of the additional guidelines.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Apart from her getting Covid, that is an amazing good story to hear on here, both that she has seen the lumps disappear and that she was treated at the Royal Marden for Covid making the use of the steroids to be known as a way of helping the very sick fight it.

I would say I wouldn't be so sure the nerve damage is a cause of the long Covid though. My mother has pain and numbness in her feet due to cancer treatment, a possible side effect of a type of steroid and chemo.

The Royal Marsden have been brilliant the absolute best combination of humanity and medical care. She has been at both Sutton and Chelsea, the latter is where their ICU is so we have experienced both. She certainly has had some problems from the Chemo (blood clots, the tingling etc) but the thumb was definitely post COVID but it could be due to a blood clot she developed in same arm. She has been pumped through with so much chemicals and antibiotics though.

 

[drew]

In hospitals it is not uncommon to have to choose to save one life, and as a result allow another to die. For example if they only have the resources to save one, they would have to make that terrible decision. The well established ethics based on both compassion and common sense, is to prioritise a young and healthy person before an old or seriously ill one.

A friend of mine (early 30's) had his chemotherapy postponed in March until a couple of weeks from now. If it gets delayed again, I would seriously question the ethics of these restrictions.

Where's your evidence that 'it's not uncommon' for life or death decisions to be made due to lack of resources?

 

[Yoda]

be serious, dont say its not accurate then throw a random "add on 20%" to the Zoe data. the "Re" in ReACT is for real-time, even if the study isn't reported daily, its fieldwork with actual tests, not people reporting they have a cough.

Did you watch Dr Campbells video? The 20% is the estimated asymptomatic cases. For him to be sceptical about the ReACT data says a lot.

And the Zoe app isn't just people reporting a "cough". If you report you are unwell with any symptoms, you are offered a home test swab kit that you send back and they can confirm if you have covid or not, so do not right the accuracy of their data off.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Where's your evidence that 'it's not uncommon' for life or death decisions to be made due to lack of resources?

Not to your specific Q, but the allocation of scarce resource to our health service Vs other activity is by itself a life and death decision which the government make on our behalf

 

[darkwolf666]

In hospitals it is not uncommon to have to choose to save one life, and as a result allow another to die. For example if they only have the resources to save one, they would have to make that terrible decision. The well established ethics based on both compassion and common sense, is to prioritise a young and healthy person before an old or seriously ill one.

A friend of mine (early 30's) had his chemotherapy postponed in March until a couple of weeks from now. If it gets delayed again, I would seriously question the ethics of these restrictions.

But you said I was being unethical, not a hospital?

 

[dazzer6666]

Fair point but it would be good that the government reviewed that and other options and were clearer on why they are choosing the path they are. There are other options than the Hokey Cokey, e.g. the New Zealand that means ****ing getting on it, full lockdown long enough to kills it, managing your borders with the army in charge, etc. Another is segmenting the problem.

Without transparency people will challenge. I don’t buy the there are too many people argument from what I’ve seen to date, although I fully accept the case may exist. But without the government’s transparency....There are 2.2m are on the clinically extremely vulnerable list getting further guidance from the government. The average number of people per household is 2.4, so without better data that’s just over 5m people. To those who are obese or overweight there is a recommendation from the NHS that we all know , lose weight, eat less calories, exercise more etc. For the vast majority it’s a choice they are in those categories, for those that have medical issues add them to the clinically extremely vulnerable list via the GP. Oh, and only 58% of those in the clinically extremely vulnerable category are bothering to comply with all of the additional guidelines.

It’s not about how anyone ‘chose’ to be obese, or whether they can go on a diet though - it’s more that without shielding (in the vast numbers necessary given the incidence of obesity) they’ll be far more likely to get very ill, and the NHS won’t be able to cope.

 

[Napper]

Not to your specific Q, but the allocation of scarce resource to our health service Vs other activity is by itself a life and death decision which the government make on our behalf

but hang on , there isn't a resource issue. Doctor and nurses up and down the country have come out and said they were never stretched in the March time and the hospitals are no where near capacity again. The headline grabbing figures if x amount % increase of hospital cases in March etc . Look at the numbers ! We were fine with coping with everything in March and we are fine now.

Sussex hospitals barely have a trickle of serious cases yet next week we will all be locked up.

Media horrific.

Save xmas though. Comical

Cant change it though so have to just take it

 

[Napper]

It’s not about how anyone ‘chose’ to be obese, or whether they can go on a diet though - it’s more that without shielding (in the vast numbers necessary given the incidence of obesity) they’ll be far more likely to get very ill, and the NHS won’t be able to cope.

"far more likely to get ill"

sensationalism , for the majority there is barely any chance of complications and if you are obese or vulnerable then there is still a very low chance of getting complications.

The way you spin it is pure bbc

 

[driller]

average age of death is 81.

And average life expectancy in Uk last year was 81
But average age of Covid victim 82

 

[driller]

View attachment 129967

 

[darkwolf666]

"far more likely to get ill"

sensationalism , for the majority there is barely any chance of complications and if you are obese or vulnerable then there is still a very low chance of getting complications.

The way you spin it is pure bbc

Do you actually believe this or are you just saying things to wind people up.

You're either a piss-taker, stupid or just an insensitive jerk... I can't make up my mind which!

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Do you actually believe this or are you just saying things to wind people up.

You're either a piss-taker, stupid or just an insensitive jerk... I can't make up my mind which!

There are few people worthy of the ignore button.

 

[daveinplzen]

What went wrong? The Czech Republic was exemplary in the spring, but now high per capita CV19 deaths.

Is it possible that some luck came into it originally, in that:
1. You were bordered by countries that had CV19 largely under control?
2. Czechs weren't big overseas travellers last winter? Whereas I know for example that Brits, the Dutch, Swedes and Belgians carried on with their holidays e.g. winter sports.

Restrictions were loosened too soon. Babis
apologised 5 times during a speech the other day. Health minister resigned before getting sacked last week. Announced new regulations and was caught by tabloid breaking the regulations a couple of days later. Politicians definitely seem to think they are above the law everywhere

 

[dazzer6666]

Do you actually believe this or are you just saying things to wind people up.

You're either a piss-taker, stupid or just an insensitive jerk... I can't make up my mind which!

Thanks, saved me posting the same.

 

[jessiejames]

While I understand the potential for future mental health issues, my immediate concern, and call me selfish, is for those who are going to die NOW, not in some possible maybe distant future. These people shouldn't just be written off as some charmer has said, "as collateral damage"...

should I take that as a compliment you calling me a charmer. On the radio last week was a doctor at a hospital saying a full lockdown is needed as they only had one intensive care bed available, get a doctor from a hospital 4 miles away complained that they had an entire ward available, and even before and during last lockdown had only seen ward half full.
SAGE report one set of figures other scientists report another. Government tells us Shield the elderly, but use them for your child care if you can go to work. Work from home, but if you can't go to work, only Essential services should open, well BoJo please advise us what is an essential service. Do not make unnecessary trips, unless your in the Cabinet then y o u can. Face masks do not reduce the chances of getting Covid, you must wear a face mask. 2 meter rule applies, but if not possible 1 meter will do. Track and trace will reduce transmission as we can alert people if they have been in contact with infected peop!e, scan the app when you go in, where do you scan to leave? Pointless.
Test more = chances are more cases detected, how reliable are the test?

If this was from Orange bungle**** from USA we would be ripping him to shreads, but it's not this is our Government, one that I voted for.