Freshers in town @ £9000 pa. Universal education, or just Hooray Henrie/ttas?

[The_Viper]

People holler on about it making no difference and no pay backs until we earn X amount but if I had to go at 9k a year I wouldn't go, being from a lot less well off family than the typical hooray henry, I'd not want to be in 27k debt before I'd even got a job.

 

[Seagull58]

If your family are in receipt of benefits then you will be able to access funds to cover your fee's and travel and even a quarterly amount to help with living expenses and of course the fee's only become relevant once you have completed your degree and found employment with a salary of £21,000+.

The challenge falls for those hard working lower/middle income family's where you might have to find extra money to cover your Son's/Daughter's living and travelling expenses, the fee's are still covered though.

Of course the real shame was that for previous generations those that had no expectation/inclination to go to university then paid for an elite few that did, but that is history.

It seems quite reasonable that those wishing to attend university and benefit from that education with a likely better paid job, needn't be subsidised by the hard working labourer or tradesman that chose not to.

and, by the same logic, those that never have the need to go to and NHS hospital or use other NHS services should not have to subsidise those that do!

 

[sten_super]

People holler on about it making no difference and no pay backs until we earn X amount but if I had to go at 9k a year I wouldn't go, being from a lot less well off family than the typical hooray henry, I'd not want to be in 27k debt before I'd even got a job.

Genuine question, because I think this gets right to the centre of the issue of perception - if debt wasn't even mentioned, and you were told that in exchange for going to university you'd simply have to pay an extra 9% tax on everything you earn about £21k, would you still be concerned about it to the same degree?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

Used to be the case that clever people went to Uni,now any half wit that doesn't fancy working for a living can bum around for a few years without bathing,soap dodging workshy scum.

 

[Bean]

It's all well and good to say that the loan is an excellent one and that you only pay it back once you earn 21k p/a. But when you're working in, say, London at the age of 25, will you really want even more money coming out of your income, as well as high rents, living costs etc. It's a farce that young people, including me, will be coming out of uni with 27k MINIMUM of debt and anyone trying to defend it pisses me off.
And regarding that article, OF COURSE it's a debt, why is he even trying to argue otherwise?

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

It's all well and good to say that the loan is an excellent one and that you only pay it back once you earn 21k p/a. But when you're working in, say, London at the age of 25, will you really want even more money coming out of your income, as well as high rents, living costs etc. It's a farce that young people, including me, will be coming out of uni with 27k MINIMUM of debt and anyone trying to defend it pisses me off.
And regarding that article, OF COURSE it's a debt, why is he even trying to argue otherwise?

You could always try and learn a trade that will stand you in good stead,bloody workshy scroungers!

 

[Bean]

You could always try and learn a trade that will stand you in good stead,bloody workshy scroungers!

I could do. But I'm 17 and I have no idea what I want to do as a career. Although uni's expensive, it keeps my options open whereas I'd be a bit stuck if I had a, say, plumbing apprenticeship and I didn't actually want to make a career out of it.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

So us workers have to pay for you SHIRKERS for 8 years while you decide what you want to do?
Go and have a bath lazy bones!

 

[Springal]

It's all well and good to say that the loan is an excellent one and that you only pay it back once you earn 21k p/a. But when you're working in, say, London at the age of 25, will you really want even more money coming out of your income, as well as high rents, living costs etc. It's a farce that young people, including me, will be coming out of uni with 27k MINIMUM of debt and anyone trying to defend it pisses me off.
And regarding that article, OF COURSE it's a debt, why is he even trying to argue otherwise?

Don't go to uni then and get a £27k debt? Degree is practically worthless nowadays, unless it is required in your chosen field. Get a 3 year head start instead.

 

[BigGully]

and, by the same logic, those that never have the need to go to and NHS hospital or use other NHS services should not have to subsidise those that do!

No, thats a silly logic.

I think most would accept personal health is a little bit more difficult to determine and therefore the advantages of paying for NHS is widely enjoyed by us all.

 

[janee]

it's all well and good to say that the loan is an excellent one and that you only pay it back once you earn 21k p/a. But when you're working in, say, london at the age of 25, will you really want even more money coming out of your income, as well as high rents, living costs etc. It's a farce that young people, including me, will be coming out of uni with 27k minimum of debt and anyone trying to defend it pisses me off.
And regarding that article, of course it's a debt, why is he even trying to argue otherwise?

this

 

[Simster]

No, thats a silly logic.

I think most would accept personal health is a little bit more difficult to determine and therefore the advantages of paying for NHS is widely enjoyed by us all.

No it isn't. Plenty of people take drugs/smoke/eat too much etc. You could easily argue that those people should be paying more.

The theory behind the state paying for higher education was that society benefits from it. Clearly that is often the case, but it is also true that the recipient also benefits above and beyond what they might otherwise expect. Perhaps the solution is for the state and individual to contriubute equally? I still don't understand how politicians think it is alright to have gone from zero fees/student grants to £30k debts in the space of just over a decade.

And the problem with the current system is that these hefty fees are still not discouraging enough people to look elsewhere for a career. It is probably the case that people are more in fear of being left behind by NOT having a degree, so do any old shit degree and rack up a debt just to stay competitive.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Used to be the case that clever people went to Uni,now any half wit that doesn't fancy working for a living can bum around for a few years without bathing,soap dodging workshy scum.

That's not strictly true though is it? When I was at a comprehensive school in the 1980s it was the very very bright kids who went to uni...and the wealthy who weren't very very bright but were very very wealthy.

Of course this was in Birkenhead where career options consisted of Heroin addiction or the Army.

 

[RexCathedra]

Having adopted the American way of post-secondary education, i expect you'll want to keep up the trend, and disassemble the NHS, replacing it with a patchwork of expensive and ineffective 'public-private partnerships' dominated by for-profit hospital chains and insurance companies.

All mod cons.

But hey, St. Reagan smiles down from his cloud.

Don't cock up and un-de-nationalize rail service, now.