[TV] Forget your GB News, a new beast is on the way

[A1X]

God this is shite, the Sharon Osbourne and Jeremy Kyle "dream team".

Really? So they’re just scouting the ITV schedules from 15 years ago and picking out the untalented ones?

 

[BadFish]

Transhumanism is the future. Its not a bad or good thing, it just is.

But yeah on the subject of transgenderism I think people should have to right to choose but people are ignoring the issues with it. I dont know how it is over there but in Sweden people who switch genders have a 19x increased risk of committing suicide, and that is not while "living in the wrong body" but post-operation.

People who have more severe, deeper laying issues search for solutions and they think they find it in something that is currently in the spotlight, like "maybe I'm struggling because I'm the wrong gender?". And at least here it doesnt take a lot before they are allowed to just switch it, without sufficient psychological evaluation, and things go from bad to worse once the sex change is done and the person realize it wasnt the solution - maybe even made it worse through all those hormones and shit - and it ends badly.

I really dont think its as simply "progressive" and "liberal" as some people think it is.

I would be interested in reading more stats and information in this area. Do you have any to hand?

I wonder if this kind of thing is a result of where we are at in the process of trans issues. These are deeper level discussions than where we are at at the moment.

Surely these are discussions to be had by medical professionals that will improve over time? We are still pretty early in the progress of all this stuff.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[Razzoo]

I just read an 'article' by Jennifer Bilek to see who she was. Not a single citation or reference to the things she was talking about. She mentioned a thesis with no real Insights to is contents (certainly not link or reference to it). She mentioned a film and proceeded to tal about a dream sequence in it.

My conclusion was that her work is not really worth my time. Does anyone have anything she has written that night change my mind on that. Something that contains some actual facts, proof or information around what she says?

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

You are very dismissive. Ok, let's say she is a liar. How would you explain the trend towards increasing amounts of people identifying as Non Binary and Trans? It's become a big thing now. It disturbs me to normalise young people mutilating themselves and in the process sterilising themselves, signing up to a lifetime of drugs to fight nature.

 

[BadFish]

You are very dismissive. Ok, let's say she is a liar. How would you explain the trend towards increasing amounts of people identifying as Non Binary and Trans? It's become a big thing now. It disturbs me to normalise young people mutilating themselves and in the process sterilising themselves, signing up to a lifetime of drugs to fight nature.

I am not sure of the statistics regarding young people becoming trans. As I said to Swanny, I would be very interested in the stats you are looking at In this area. How many young people are getting the operation? (or ' mutilation' as you so tellingly put it).

My experience is more about the non binary stuff. Young people are now freer to consider where they stand in the gender spectrum so talk about it and explore it. Personally I think that the result of this self exploration will be a small increase in those who 'settle' on something outside the norm. The increase may be larger, I don't know as this freedom of understanding one's self has never been experienced before.

I really am interested to know what stats you have on this subject as I have a lot to learn about it. That Bilek women is unlikely to convince me of anything though.



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[Swansman]

I would be interested in reading more stats and information in this area. Do you have any to hand?

I wonder if this kind of thing is a result of where we are at in the process of trans issues. These are deeper level discussions than where we are at at the moment.

Surely these are discussions to be had by medical professionals that will improve over time? We are still pretty early in the progress of all this stuff.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

Not really, the wake up call for me was a long article in the Swedish investigative magazine Filter (considered "leftist" in 2019, the main story being about a young man who killed himself after changing gender, which his psychiatrists pushed him to do - but I dont remember all of it. But in the aftermath of that article there was a debate and I'm finding some references. Here is a study (not read it) where the 19% number comes from:

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Interesting article from professor Christopher Gillberg, bringing some stats and raising some questions (probably readable with Google Translate):

https://www.svd.se/a/1k1rMl/konsbytena-pa-barn-ar-ett-stort-experiment

Part of the article:

Results of the extremely limited research in the field indicate that many, perhaps the majority, of the children in question (so-called rapid onset / adolescent onset gender dysphoria) have autism, autism-like conditions or other developmental neurological problems. There is much to suggest that gender dysphoria that starts in late childhood and adolescence is not at all an isolated issue of gender identity but a more pervasive "who am I problem" related to developmental neurological / neuropsychiatric problems, eating disorders, depression and trauma in young people.

In this situation, it is incomprehensible that the rapid investigations to establish a diagnosis (three calls) and treatments with hormones, which are also off-label (gender dysphoria is not an approved indication for these drugs) may take place without the requirement for an ethically approved controlled prospective longitudinal long-term research. There is no scientific support for these treatments giving any positive long-term results. When we, experienced researchers at the Sahlgrenska Academy at the University of Gothenburg, have now had our application to the state research grantor Forte to be allowed to carry out such research rejected, we can only ask ourselves a number of questions:

What is driving this avalanche-like development, and who is behind the opposition to reasonable objective research? Who takes responsibility for a large number of children, many of them with neuropsychiatric disabilities, undergoing rapid and superficial assessments without anchoring in support from long-term data and scientific evidence? Why are so many girls / young women with autism traits suddenly starting to identify as boys?

How can one carelessly contribute additional state funds to unexplored experimental activities with medical and surgical mutilation of young people as experimental animals (Sahlgrenska University Hospital gave another million to the hormone activities the other day)?

Why has the issue come to be confused with the important rights issues driven by the LGBTQ movement? "Gender dysphoria with a sudden onset of adolescence" has nothing to do with the rights of adults to live as they wish.

Why do government research councils not want to invest in prospective longitudinal research in the field of gender dysphoria in children? Why do you not want to find out how common it is with neuropsychiatric problems in gender dysphoria and how it goes for children and families in the long run?

When, instead, will there be a requirement that everyone who conducts experiments of the type in question must participate in longitudinal holistic research projects that have ethical approval?

I think it is a genuinely important debate.

As you say, it might improve over time but if that is the case, is it not currently irresponsible and dangerous to carry this out in the meanwhile?

Stats from Socialstyrelsen:

New statistics from the National Board of Health and Welfare show that almost no one younger than 25 years was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in Sweden in 2001. A gradual increase took place until 2011, after which the increase has been exponential. In 2001, 12 young people were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, in 2018 the number was 1,859. This is a 155-fold increase.

 

[BadFish]

Not really, the wake up call for me was a long article in the Swedish investigative magazine Filter (considered "leftist" in 2019, the main story being about a young man who killed himself after changing gender, which his psychiatrists pushed him to do - but I dont remember all of it. But in the aftermath of that article there was a debate and I'm finding some references. Here is a study (not read it) where the 19% number comes from:

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Interesting article from professor Christopher Gillberg, bringing some stats and raising some questions (probably readable with Google Translate):

https://www.svd.se/a/1k1rMl/konsbytena-pa-barn-ar-ett-stort-experiment

Part of the article:

Results of the extremely limited research in the field indicate that many, perhaps the majority, of the children in question (so-called rapid onset / adolescent onset gender dysphoria) have autism, autism-like conditions or other developmental neurological problems. There is much to suggest that gender dysphoria that starts in late childhood and adolescence is not at all an isolated issue of gender identity but a more pervasive "who am I problem" related to developmental neurological / neuropsychiatric problems, eating disorders, depression and trauma in young people.

In this situation, it is incomprehensible that the rapid investigations to establish a diagnosis (three calls) and treatments with hormones, which are also off-label (gender dysphoria is not an approved indication for these drugs) may take place without the requirement for an ethically approved controlled prospective longitudinal long-term research. There is no scientific support for these treatments giving any positive long-term results. When we, experienced researchers at the Sahlgrenska Academy at the University of Gothenburg, have now had our application to the state research grantor Forte to be allowed to carry out such research rejected, we can only ask ourselves a number of questions:

What is driving this avalanche-like development, and who is behind the opposition to reasonable objective research? Who takes responsibility for a large number of children, many of them with neuropsychiatric disabilities, undergoing rapid and superficial assessments without anchoring in support from long-term data and scientific evidence? Why are so many girls / young women with autism traits suddenly starting to identify as boys?

How can one carelessly contribute additional state funds to unexplored experimental activities with medical and surgical mutilation of young people as experimental animals (Sahlgrenska University Hospital gave another million to the hormone activities the other day)?

Why has the issue come to be confused with the important rights issues driven by the LGBTQ movement? "Gender dysphoria with a sudden onset of adolescence" has nothing to do with the rights of adults to live as they wish.

Why do government research councils not want to invest in prospective longitudinal research in the field of gender dysphoria in children? Why do you not want to find out how common it is with neuropsychiatric problems in gender dysphoria and how it goes for children and families in the long run?

When, instead, will there be a requirement that everyone who conducts experiments of the type in question must participate in longitudinal holistic research projects that have ethical approval?

I think it is a genuinely important debate.

As you say, it might improve over time but if that is the case, is it not currently irresponsible and dangerous to carry this out in the meanwhile?

Stats from Socialstyrelsen:

New statistics from the National Board of Health and Welfare show that almost no one younger than 25 years was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in Sweden in 2001. A gradual increase took place until 2011, after which the increase has been exponential. In 2001, 12 young people were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, in 2018 the number was 1,859. This is a 155-fold increase.

Just taking the kids to school but will have a proper read later. I agree though that it could well be an issue if irreversible treatment is being carried out when real understanding of the issue it is concerning.

I have just had a quick look to find stats about when surgery takes place but didn't find much as it all seems to be about requests and referrals (some referrals sought at aged 2- which seems insane to me). Australia seems to have an 18+ limit but not sure of the necessary process.

I agree that this is a discussion that needs to be had.

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

 

[BadFish]

Not really, the wake up call for me was a long article in the Swedish investigative magazine Filter (considered "leftist" in 2019, the main story being about a young man who killed himself after changing gender, which his psychiatrists pushed him to do - but I dont remember all of it. But in the aftermath of that article there was a debate and I'm finding some references. Here is a study (not read it) where the 19% number comes from:

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Interesting article from professor Christopher Gillberg, bringing some stats and raising some questions (probably readable with Google Translate):

https://www.svd.se/a/1k1rMl/konsbytena-pa-barn-ar-ett-stort-experiment

Part of the article:

Results of the extremely limited research in the field indicate that many, perhaps the majority, of the children in question (so-called rapid onset / adolescent onset gender dysphoria) have autism, autism-like conditions or other developmental neurological problems. There is much to suggest that gender dysphoria that starts in late childhood and adolescence is not at all an isolated issue of gender identity but a more pervasive "who am I problem" related to developmental neurological / neuropsychiatric problems, eating disorders, depression and trauma in young people.

In this situation, it is incomprehensible that the rapid investigations to establish a diagnosis (three calls) and treatments with hormones, which are also off-label (gender dysphoria is not an approved indication for these drugs) may take place without the requirement for an ethically approved controlled prospective longitudinal long-term research. There is no scientific support for these treatments giving any positive long-term results. When we, experienced researchers at the Sahlgrenska Academy at the University of Gothenburg, have now had our application to the state research grantor Forte to be allowed to carry out such research rejected, we can only ask ourselves a number of questions:

What is driving this avalanche-like development, and who is behind the opposition to reasonable objective research? Who takes responsibility for a large number of children, many of them with neuropsychiatric disabilities, undergoing rapid and superficial assessments without anchoring in support from long-term data and scientific evidence? Why are so many girls / young women with autism traits suddenly starting to identify as boys?

How can one carelessly contribute additional state funds to unexplored experimental activities with medical and surgical mutilation of young people as experimental animals (Sahlgrenska University Hospital gave another million to the hormone activities the other day)?

Why has the issue come to be confused with the important rights issues driven by the LGBTQ movement? "Gender dysphoria with a sudden onset of adolescence" has nothing to do with the rights of adults to live as they wish.

Why do government research councils not want to invest in prospective longitudinal research in the field of gender dysphoria in children? Why do you not want to find out how common it is with neuropsychiatric problems in gender dysphoria and how it goes for children and families in the long run?

When, instead, will there be a requirement that everyone who conducts experiments of the type in question must participate in longitudinal holistic research projects that have ethical approval?

I think it is a genuinely important debate.

As you say, it might improve over time but if that is the case, is it not currently irresponsible and dangerous to carry this out in the meanwhile?

Stats from Socialstyrelsen:

New statistics from the National Board of Health and Welfare show that almost no one younger than 25 years was diagnosed with gender dysphoria in Sweden in 2001. A gradual increase took place until 2011, after which the increase has been exponential. In 2001, 12 young people were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, in 2018 the number was 1,859. This is a 155-fold increase.

The conclusion of the article you posted is interesting:

Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.

What I read from your previous post was that you were suggesting that treatment was mistakenly given and that Sweden rushes into sex realignment. the suggestion of this conclusion appears to be that more aftercare is required to help patients. It doesn't conclude that the sex reassignment was the incorrect treatment or that it did not involve 'sufficient psychological evaluation'.

I don't know the specific process for obtaining sex realignment operations or irreversible hormone treatment. However from what I see the numbers are quite low in terms of people successfully having realignment . If you consider that there seems to be a huge number of people trying to get the treatment it suggests that the process is at least reasonably rigorous (I don't know about Sweden specifically) Here is some info from the UK suggesting that there is a 12% success rate in applications to operations. https://assets.publishing.service.g...hment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf

This suggests that the US has around 11% (in the introduction) https://journals.lww.com/cur/fulltext/2021/03000/transgender_surgery___knowledge_gap_among.12.aspx

The questions posed by the other authors are also very interesting, especially this one:

Why has the issue come to be confused with the important rights issues driven by the LGBTQ movement? "Gender dysphoria with a sudden onset of adolescence" has nothing to do with the rights of adults to live as they wish.

My observation is that a number of posters on this thread seem to have done this. Equating and conflating gender confusion around adolescence with mutilation and sterilizing is just plain weird. Add into that hysteria about what people are claiming is taught in schools by rogue teachers and apparently the school's curriculum, I agree there are questions. I don't expect to see any of the evidence supporting their claims though, but I guess you can't stop professor Facebook and Dr youtube.

And herein lies the problems with discussion on this issue, the discussion is conflated and confused (either purposefully or not),

Another problem is, as your second article said there is not enough research into the problems (probably because it has only recently been socially acceptable to acknowledge it). I am studying Autism at the moment and although this is something that has been accepted for far longer (well mostly) there are still huge gaps in the research and in parts, it seems that we know little about it. I would ask the same question as your second author about why governments do not want to fund studies into Autism? I suspect that anyone with a serious interest in anything would ask the same question (except weapons maybe? ). I also suspect that the answer would be the same. We have a few people working in Universities on this board, I wonder if they are happy with their funding levels. I know that Australian universities are heavily reliant on expensive foreign students to make ends meet.

Edit:

Interesting article here: https://genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

 

[BBassic]

There's an excellent page on the Stonewall site about transgender and non-binary people, the various processes and obstacles etc.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans

Something else to consider is how open we are societally.

It's plausible that there's always been a high number of people who identify as transgender or non-binary that but felt they couldn't disclose this for fear of how they would be treated. We're now, largely, a more accepting world which is a good thing imo.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

"HEY! EVERYONE! Come and look how DANGEROUS and EDGEY I am"

53 seconds in before '"woke snowflakes" was mentioned.

Calls people snowflakes after storming off GMB because someone didnt agree with him

 

[BadFish]

There's an excellent page on the Stonewall site about transgender and non-binary people, the various processes and obstacles etc.

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans

Something else to consider is how open we are societally.

It's plausible that there's always been a high number of people who identify as transgender or non-binary that but felt they couldn't disclose this for fear of how they would be treated. We're now, largely, a more accepting world which is a good thing imo.

I thought this was interesting:

Does teachers and doctors talking about trans issues more make children and young people think they are trans when they aren’t?
No. Over 30 years ago, Section 28 was introduced to prevent schools from ‘promoting homosexuality’ because there were fears that children would ‘turn gay’ if they learned about lesbian, gay and bi people. While this might seem ridiculous to many of us now, we’re currently seeing very similar conversations happening around teaching kids about trans people in school.

The fact that teachers, doctors, families and caregivers are talking about gender more is a good thing. It means that children are more empowered and more able to explore their identity as they grow up, as well as helping them understand and celebrate difference in others.

All children and young people deserve the right to be happy and to be themselves. When young people access support, they’re looking for exactly that: support. They want someone to talk things through with, someone who can understand their thoughts and feelings, and help them to have similar conversations with others around them. Those who do explore their identity and realise they are trans deserve love, support and age-appropriate care.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Jeremy Kyle running a great 'Drivetime' right now, like a James O'Brien but he listens and doesn't get frothy mouthed.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Jeremy Kyle running a great 'Drivetime' right now, like a James O'Brien but he listens and doesn't get frothy mouthed.

This is a satirical post, right? You are [MENTION=3385]crodonilson[/MENTION], and I claim my five pounds' worth of postal orders.

 

[nicko31]

Jeremy Kyle running a great 'Drivetime' right now, like a James O'Brien but he listens and doesn't get frothy mouthed.

Why are Murdoch media outlets always littered with people who have destroyed people's lives?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Why are Murdoch media outlets always littered with people who have destroyed people's lives?

Bercow might get the graveyard shift.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Bercow might get the graveyard shift.

Johnson would be more appropriate in that context.

Cool thread, though, bro.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Johnson would be more appropriate in that context.

Cool thread, though, bro.

Cheers 'H'.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I thought this was interesting:

Does teachers and doctors talking about trans issues more make children and young people think they are trans when they aren’t?
No. Over 30 years ago, Section 28 was introduced to prevent schools from ‘promoting homosexuality’ because there were fears that children would ‘turn gay’ if they learned about lesbian, gay and bi people. While this might seem ridiculous to many of us now, we’re currently seeing very similar conversations happening around teaching kids about trans people in school.

The fact that teachers, doctors, families and caregivers are talking about gender more is a good thing. It means that children are more empowered and more able to explore their identity as they grow up, as well as helping them understand and celebrate difference in others.

All children and young people deserve the right to be happy and to be themselves. When young people access support, they’re looking for exactly that: support. They want someone to talk things through with, someone who can understand their thoughts and feelings, and help them to have similar conversations with others around them. Those who do explore their identity and realise they are trans deserve love, support and age-appropriate care.

And did the programme live up to your hopes, or to your expectations?

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is a satirical post, right? You are [MENTION=3385]crodonilson[/MENTION], and I claim my five pounds' worth of postal orders.

Personally. I've always thought more [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], but without the literary prowess

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Personally. I've always thought more [MENTION=11191]Pretty pink fairy[/MENTION], but without the literary prowess

Now, now. That's very unfair. PotG writes perfectly well.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Now, now. That's very unfair. PotG writes perfectly well.

Certainly under three sentences and three syllables he is positively masterful