Forest spending getting silly now

[Thunder Bolt]

Because our 26k plus isn't every week, it's not even once a fortnight. Gate receipts were £8.7 million from those attendances, there are five clubs in the division receiving £18 million from parachute payments, and a further five receiving £9 million.

So there's your answer.

What would the club have to do before some people even dare think about criticising them?

There are so many people on here that will excuse anything because the club says it should be like that.

I accept that we cannot just spend millions on wages and waste everything we have but if some on here can't open their eyes and face reality sometimes.....

26k+ attendances
Record commercial hook ups
Record shirt manufacturer deal
Record shirt sponsorship deal
Ground naming rights
Training ground training rights
£12m in outgoing transfers

And we have signed....

I'm all for being pro Bloom but some on here would agree with anything that comes from the club without any question!

It's not a case of daring to criticise the club, it's looking at facts like the above. Another fact is that we have signed 3 quality players already, and have the finances to bring further quality into the club. Just because the timing doesn't suit you, doesn't mean the club aren't trying.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Oh dear....down to name calling.....everyone has their points of view and are entitled to express them....you may not agree with them...but you don't have to start bitching about them personally rather than their views.
Personally I agree that the FFP rules will make a difference...if they are implemented...if not then we were sold a lie. I think parachute payments are a blight on the game...a reward for failure...I thought only bankers and politicians got that. But it is there and I trust our board...especially Paul Barber to get us around that.....C'mon you Seagulls.

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

Did you listen to the fan's forum? Especially the part comparing The Albion's income from ALL revenue streams to the likes of Fulham whose gates are significantly lower than ours? Fulham paid £10Million for ONE player. That kind of imbalance guarantees that players' wage demands from the likes of us are way beyond acceptable.

That is the reality some on here don't understand. And we haven't even factored in the last set of losses recorded by The Albion, partly accumulated 'chasing the dream' which worked fantastically well didn't it?

I think you should re-read my post.

I haven't asked for us to 'chase the dream' nor have I compared us to any other club (especially ones with parachute payments) but we have sold 2 of our top earners and brought in over £11m in the process.

Are you saying that even after that we cannot sign ANY half decent players?

I'm sorry but the truth is not being told here otherwise we should just pack up now, ask to join the non-league scene and sell the Amex. Our financials do not add up, at all!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

If your happy to except that Adam Clayton is off to Middlesborough because he likes the area then you a fool.

Like so many other players we have lost out for one reason and one reason only. Other clubs are prepared to pay more.

If the likes of Boro can afford it on there shit crowds (and there are plenty of other examples) then why can't we with 26k plus every week?

Unless you can answer this, bugger off

To quote the answers given by Tony Bloom and Paul Barber to the question below asked at the fans forum yesterday:

Whats our biggest obstical on gaining promotion to the Premier League, is it Financial Fair Play or is it the Parachute Payments that clubs are having in their budgets which are relegated from the Premier League?

Tony Bloom
Well this season there are 10 clubs with parachute payments, so that gives them financially a significant advantage over clubs like ourselves who don't have that but as we have seen in previous seasons just, those clubs with parachute payments, some of them do well some of them do badly and some like Wolves got relegated the season before last.

Without parachute payments we've finished 4th and 6th in the last 2 seasons so although it is an obstical it gives them a definite financial advantage .
We have to be clever, do what we can to sell ourselves to to without spending as much perhaps some of these clubs can, to compete it's not easy, we don't have the money that the clubs like Fulham, Norwich, Cardiff are going to have so there is a financial obstical, there is nothing we can do until we get promoted and then if we do come back down at some point, which is inevitable i guess, we will have parachute payments and be able to compete in a better way than some of the other clubs in the Championship so i think that is our main one and i still think even given that, we will have a competitive squad, that we will give it our best shot of promotion.

(Host - so Paul would you like to add to that)

Paul Barber
Well i think i used the expression a couple of weeks ago at a conference that here we are at the Albion, we've got more season ticket holders pretty much than anyone else in this league, we've got great sponsors, American Express on the name of our stadium, on the front of our shirts, on our training ground. We've got corporate hospitality sold out for the next 2 years, we've got a great merchandise store and a fantastic kit deal and all of that income combined doesn't add up to one parachute payment that Fulham are going to get.
Thats unbelievable you know and as Tony has said you can't see it as anything else other than as a barrier, an obstical and a challenge but there are no guarentees on the football field that money is going to guarentee you success so we've got to be smarter, we've gotta work as hard as we can going forward to maximise our income, reduce our costs, try and put as much money as we can into the hands of Tony and david and Sami to give ourselves the best possible chance and i know it's boring in a football club to hear a chief executive talk about increasing income and reducing costs and Financial Fair Play but that is now part of the game we are in, that is part of modern football now that we are having to cope with, not just us but the Premier League and Leagues across Europe aswell.

So we do need your support, you know you guys have been fantastic over the years we have been at the Amex, but we will need you to carry on doing what you are doing, we do need you to buy your beer here, we do need you to use this place for your 21st birthdays and your wedding ceremonies and all the rest of it because all of that helps us to put money on the pitch it really does.

The one beauty of Financial Fair Play is it makes there a direct relationship between how the fans behave around the football club on match days and during the week and what we can actually do on the pitch week in, week out. There is now a direct corrolation and it's never been greater and more important.

So the answer to your question is, we have decided against paying more to some players because we don't think it's the smart move to make. It would seem that if we caved in to these higher demands than we have valued them at, then we would have less to spend elsewhere across the rest of the squad and also we may be able to find an equal or better replacement for similar money than we were offering so to cave in to their demands just for the sake of signing someone is, in their eyes, the wrong use of our playing budget and they are happier to wait and get the right player in at the right price.


Listen to the whole thing here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023xj1c

 

[El Presidente]

To quote the answers given by Tony Bloom and Paul Barber to the question below asked at the fans forum yesterday:

Whats our biggest obstical on gaining promotion to the Premier League, is it Financial Fair Play or is it the Parachute Payments that clubs are having in their budgets which are relegated from the Premier League?



(Host - so Paul would you like to add to that)


So the answer to your question is, we have decided against paying more to some players because we don't think it's the smart move to make. It would seem that if we caved in to these higher demands than we have valued them at, then we would have less to spend elsewhere across the rest of the squad and also we may be able to find an equal or better replacement for similar money than we were offering so to cave in to their demands just for the sake of signing someone is, in their eyes, the wrong use of our playing budget and they are happier to wait and get the right player in at the right price.


Listen to the whole thing here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p023xj1c

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can answer anything with FACTS though.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Are you for real?

We all know why players go elsewhere and thankfully the owners of the club don't listen to idiots like you when it comes to potentially dumping the club deep in the financial shit. The type of financial shit that allowed Stanley and Archer to almost destroy this club.

I suggest you are the one who needs to bugger off if you refuse to engage your brain before posting.

We all WANT the best players at The Albion, some of us realise that we can't always get what we want if we don't have the money.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Our transfer policy has been a hotly disputed topic of conversation and massive bone of contention for 2-3 windows now.

There's no smoke without fire. There's clearly a fundamental problem, it does exist, despite the resistance apparent in this thread.

Comments made by Sami and by Oscar recently have seemed to indicate that they are a lot more involved in the process at the Albion than they were used to whilst managing abroad.

I get the impression from their comments that their old clubs basically selected the players and brought them in and that the manager had very little say (if any) over who came in. This may suit some managers who would rather be researching the opposition or working with the squad in training rather than being that involved in trying to find transfer targets

Maybe thats the cause of their comments, they are more hands on here (and the club was being slated recently (wrongly it seems) for not involving the manager enough)

 

[Westdene Seagull]

How much money must they have spent last two years. Absolute crazy.

Does there chairman know something we don't about the sustainability of FFP?

If I sound jealous that's because I am.

It's not lack of investment from a transfer fee perspective that frustrates me. It's how quite clearly our wage structure is not conducive to where we as a club want to be. It's time we excepted that this method isn't working and take a slightly more calculated risk without being wreck-less.

1979 - 1983 !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can answer anything with FACTS though.

Sorry, i forgot this is bed wetting season on NSC.

We're doomed, the club's doomed. There is no money, the owners selling up asap, we have no players at all in our current squad or the prospect of ever signing anyone ever again, we are being relegated to the Ryman Premier next season after we lose 90 league games in a row, how dare the club charge us for stuff we may want on match days, etc.....

Better?

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Our transfer policy has been a hotly disputed topic of conversation and massive bone of contention for 2-3 windows now.

There's no smoke without fire. There's clearly a fundamental problem, it does exist, despite the resistance apparent in this thread.

I think you do have a point, there is smoke.
I may be way off base, but it seems apparent that TB is playing hardball in the negotiations (tieing together what previous managers have said with what's occurring in these windows).

Good for him, i'd prefer a few agents and players noses get put out of joint in the short term, than we get mugged off in the long term.

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

People need to remember that once you bring in new players on high wages, players who already have contracts will start demanding more as well. An extra 2-4K a week for one player could easily escalate into an extra 10/15K a week.

The club is taking a calculated risk by adhering to FFP, if we meet the guidelines and the FL take action against those who haven't we could massively benefit from playing it safe. Lets not forget playing it safe has seen us finish 10th, 4th and 6th in the second division of English football... Not bad eh?

 

[Eston hills]

Where else are Middlesbrough able to magic up this money from? Steve Gibson that's who, and that contravenes the FFP bank rolling rules. They are surely not generating massive amounts of income via player sales, merchandise, TV, and/or successes on the pitch... are they?!?

Boro fan here in peace. Look up rockcliffe hall and golf course at middlesbrough trIning ground. Steve Gibson has put in 50 million into this development for the football club over the last 7 years. 5 star hotel and spa facilities and the 2nd longest golf course in Europe. In 2009 he stated this would be the equivelant revenue to selling out the riverside 35k fans every game of the season on top of the gates we get now. Maybe this is how we can afford players.

 

[Trigger]

Good luck to any teams 'breaking' the rules, they know full well they won't get punished.

 

[Knotty]

There's no smoke without fire.

On the contrary!

On NSC there are, every day, great billowing, towering clouds of smoke without any hint of fire!

 

[Braggfan]

It understandable that people are getting frustrated when missing out on players, we're the only ones. Tony Bloom and Sami have both recently said it's been frustrating not to land some of their targets. But that's not the reason to abandon all our plans. It would be lovely to increase the wage structure and spend money on transfers, but having been a club that really hit rock bottom we have people in charge who remember those times and are determined that we move forward without putting ourselves at risk of returning there. It may take a little bit longer with this approach but as long as we keep building we'll get there. Don't let yourself get bothered by what other clubs are doing as long as we are doing the right things that's all that matters.

 

[Kosh]

Eston: Thanks for that, I was unaware of the additional revenue source for the club. I guess Steve Gibson is a true fan, and deserves the success bringing players like Clayton et al to the club could well bring. Having lived in the north east pretty much all my life, I certainly don't wish any ill towards Middlesbrough! indeed they are an English owned success story, and in many respects Steve Gibson deserves huge credit for keeping the club afloat following what must have been very tough times post the premier league dream years. Good luck for the coming season, I suspect you'll be finishing above us this time around...

 

[Pantani]

As soon as the football league start any action with the clubs that are breaking FFP rules, said clubs will just stick 2 fingers up to the FL and and the spinless football league will back down .

Then the FL will get taken to court by those who have stuck by the rules. Do you really think Tony Bloom will just shrug his shoulders and accept that his £200m+ investment is being left behind by cheats?

One thing is certain, sports lawyers will be making some money in the next few years.

 

[father_and_son]

So many people with short memories or too young to remember what happens to a club when they can't pay their bills.

I suggest that the OP and some of you others do a little research into just how close we came to not having a football club to support.

FFS! First Dick and now Tony have saved us from oblivion by being cleverer than you lot and realising that spending what you haven't got is no way to run this club.

 

[MattBackHome]

As did Forest.

I think that what has been slightly overlooked from the Fans Forum were the references made to playing the long game. Burke said last year that FFP was starting to have an effect on wage demands. If I was a football agent I would now be trying to combat this by feeding championship clubs the line that larger parachute payments make it imperative to invest to compete and that it was worth paying for quality if it gets you out of the division. However, this may be the last window during which clubs can continue to ignore the fact that this approach is unsustainable. The truth is that there is a finite number of players good enough to play in the championship, but not wanted by Premiership sides. Players like McCormack, Le Fondre and Rhodes obviously don't guarantee promotion. If they were that good they wouldn't be playing in the Championship.

The thing that impressed me most about Tony Bloom's comments were that, were we to go up, he saw relegation from the top league as eventually inevitable. This should be the premise upon which virtually all teams in the top divisions should base their business models. Championship football clubs need to move towards turning a profit without the need for promotion. If Bloom's long game is successful and Brighton do go up to the Premier League in the next few years, they will do so in a way that will be more sustainable and this means that the future would not be put in jeopardy by relegation. During a time of increasing inequality I would be far happier if my club was a leader in bringing sanity and financial morality back into English football than I would be if it got lucky in the play off lottery and spent a year or two paying obscene amounts to try to avoid coming back to a division which, year on year, actually provides more entertainment than the Premier.

Phenomenal post.

 

[Pantani]

Boro fan here in peace. Look up rockcliffe hall and golf course at middlesbrough trIning ground. Steve Gibson has put in 50 million into this development for the football club over the last 7 years. 5 star hotel and spa facilities and the 2nd longest golf course in Europe. In 2009 he stated this would be the equivelant revenue to selling out the riverside 35k fans every game of the season on top of the gates we get now. Maybe this is how we can afford players.

That golf course and hotel have been owned by Middlesbrough since 2009. In 2012-13 Middlesbrough lost £17.6m. Has this golf course and hotel suddenly started turning a £20m a year profit? Does every penny of that go to Middlesbrough FC? I just don't see how that is possible, the figures just don't stack up.