Foreign Players.....

[BigGully]

Having top class facilities will mean that we're better equipped to develop that talent though won't it? And you'd hope that the majority of it would be English.

Also, yes. Pardew is shit.

I am with Stat Brother on this one, yep the fantastic facility can help in recruitment and retention, its a reflection on the clubs health and resources, but it doesn't necessarily offer a quicker more productive pathway to first team football for those youngsters.

Accepting that the investment will prompt an eagerness for them to produce players, which usually can only mean opportunity whereas before none existed.

Many of the nationalities reflected in the top English leagues would indicate that facility is not key to producing young players that then play first team football for that club, it probably maximises their own potential but without a genuine desire to risk playing them then it will not work.

 

[gazingdown]

I wonder why all the talk is on foreign players, what about foreign managers.

There are 4 English managers in the PL, 2 of them relegated (and 1 more a possible relegation candidate) so there could be ONE English (who is a hoof/run merchant!) manager in the PL next year (If Hull don't make it and Watford/BHA do).

That's:
4 Scots
2 Italian
2 Spaniards
1 French
1 Dutch
1 Dane
1 NI
1 ROI
1 Welsh
1 Portuguese
1 Argentinian

It's a scandal etc.

I wonder how many Englishmen own PL teams?

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

Well, there's rumours that Pardew doesn't have control of the dressing room, and the French players just walk all over him.

Even if that is true is it the French players to blame or is it pardew? This just sounds a bit 'Lets all blame the foriegners'.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The bit about Crewe is important. We need to rear the kids from a very early age, teaching them the correct things so that they are good enough when they hit 19/20. It's no good picking up a youngster who is quick and strong at 18 but cannot keep his technique when put under pressure on the ball.

Southampton do well with bringing good quality youngsters through.

 

[BigGully]

Southampton do well with bringing good quality youngsters through.

Policy and opportunity is key .......

Crewes strength is not likely to be amazing coaches, but Crewe offer opportunity where other's do not, its their policy as it is Southampton's, maybe it will become Bloom's policy too.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I think Gary Neville has a point about all of the French players at Newcastle.

Newcastle's problems isn't foreign players per se - the spine of their team last season was all-foreign: Krul, Coloccini, Cabaye, Tiote and Ba. It's the fact they've got about 11 Frenchmen who have leapfrogged 11 Englishmen. Pardew got rid of an English core of Barton, Nolan, Guthrie and Carroll, while the likes of the Ameobis, Williamson, Ryan and Steven Taylor are now bit-part players.

 

[Flavor Flav]

As much as I'd love to see some more home grown talent as long as they care is all that matters to me. For example why would Englishman Liam Dickinson, who couldn't give a shit about the club play over Spanish Inigo Calderon who clearly loves the club.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So why do Spain, France, Italy and Germany are able to brag about their successes in home-grown talent

Because they look at things longer term, put structure in place and have everyone pulling together for the greater good. England doesnt. There is no central process for finding and nuturing talent in the UK; it's a hotch-potch of different organisations all pulling in different directions with different agendas. There is also a huge disparity with the number of coaches between the UK and elsewhre as well. That said, given the majority of pro clubs do not attempt to play much football I dread to think what English coaches teach their kids especially in the academies or whatever the latest name is. Maybe this is a good thing? I do not think things will change; at the top of the pile the attitude is to buy yourself a solution....not develope one; why spent years nuturing talent when you can buy it? To be honest I'm beyond caring now.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Barcelona are an interesting example, because they haven't always been so monocultural. At one time their team was more Dutch than Spanish, and Real Madrid had as many Catalans in their side as Barca. Yet now that they have increased the home-grown element, they have become more successful.

So Dean Wilkins was right. Or at least we need a proper academy.

Bayern Munich have a decent number in their ranks as well. First team stalwarts Bastian Schweinsteiger, Philipp Lahm, Toni Kroos, Thomas Müller and Holger Badstuber are all home grown. Likewise you could make the same case for them improving with more homegrown talent.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Bayern Munich have a decent number in their ranks as well. First team stalwarts Bastian Schweinsteiger, Philipp Lahm, Toni Kroos, Thomas Müller and Holger Badstuber are all home grown. Likewise you could make the same case for them improving with more homegrown talent.

i long for the day that england produce a player with a level of ability even vaguely resembling Bastian

insanely good player

 

[Philzo-93]

Because they look at things longer term, put structure in place and have everyone pulling together for the greater good. England doesnt. There is no central process for finding and nuturing talent in the UK; it's a hotch-potch of different organisations all pulling in different directions with different agendas. There is also a huge disparity with the number of coaches between the UK and elsewhre as well. That said, given the majority of pro clubs do not attempt to play much football I dread to think what English coaches teach their kids especially in the academies or whatever the latest name is. Maybe this is a good thing? I do not think things will change; at the top of the pile the attitude is to buy yourself a solution....not develope one; why spent years nuturing talent when you can buy it? To be honest I'm beyond caring now.

A very valid point. It's sad to see coaches who still believe in the concept that we have had in place for decades when other countries have developed a system for the modern game and, eventually, benefit from it. Like you said, we focus so much on the short-term without considering the impact or consequences of the future of english football. I don't blame you for not caring, it's a losing battle trying to put in place a system like the Germans or the French have in place now. This really needs to change, but like I said before, it's a losing battle. Especially when your City's; United's and Chelsea's have shitloads of cash!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

A very valid point. It's sad to see coaches who still believe in the concept that we have had in place for decades when other countries have developed a system for the modern game and, eventually, benefit from it. Like you said, we focus so much on the short-term without considering the impact or consequences of the future of english football. I don't blame you for not caring, it's a losing battle trying to put in place a system like the Germans or the French have in place now. This really needs to change, but like I said before, it's a losing battle. Especially when your City's; United's and Chelsea's have shitloads of cash!

Dont get me wrong; I would like to care.

But, I believe the only way something will change is if there is a financial disaster of some sort with Sky or the Premier League. Remember the reasons which the Premier League used to justify their break away? One was that more money focussed at the top would benefit English footballers and the international team. The main outcome is to make some very very average players very very wealthy. It has not made them better in the slightest.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

i long for the day that england produce a player with a level of ability even vaguely resembling Bastian

insanely good player

Totally agree. He is my favourite player at the moment. The heartbeat of Germany.

 

[HastingsSeagull]

If you can't restrict the number of Europeans...... could you INCENTIVISE any club that say had 3 or 4 British players or more in every one of their matchs at all times? Say with a share of an extra pot of money etc?

 

[gjh1971]

Michu for £2m when he'd finished as the third highest goalscorer in Spain behind Messi and Ronaldo

This is far away from the truth. Michu played in the Spanish second division last season and was 9th top scorer with 15. A certain Leo Ulloa was top scorer with 28. Wonder what happened to him

 

[Surf's Up]

UEFA Pro, 'A' and 'B' coaches registered:

Germany 34,950
Spain 23,995
Italy 29,420
France 17,588

England 2,769

Nuff said?

That was my point earlier on - these countries have Pro a and B coaches teaching kids all over their countries and teaching all ages. We are a long long way off the mark.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

This is far away from the truth. Michu played in the Spanish second division last season and was 9th top scorer with 15. A certain Leo Ulloa was top scorer with 28. Wonder what happened to him

michu was 9th top scorer in the top division

 

[BadFish]

Agreed says it all.Kids coaching in England still very poor, too much emphasis on winning. Lack of basic skills is frightening, parents frightening etc etc, same old arguments nothing ever chasnges.

Just a shame there is no money about to fix it really isn't it?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

If you can't restrict the number of Europeans...... could you INCENTIVISE any club that say had 3 or 4 British players or more in every one of their matchs at all times? Say with a share of an extra pot of money etc?

Perhaps substitute "British" with white, muslim, heterosexual .............. and then ask youself the questions again.

 

[BadFish]

If you can't restrict the number of Europeans...... could you INCENTIVISE any club that say had 3 or 4 British players or more in every one of their matchs at all times? Say with a share of an extra pot of money etc?

Surely the way to go about things is to improve the technique and skills of British players so they can get in the teams on merit. This way we are getting more quality players in our top teams without weakening them. The fact is that the only way to make sure that clubs develop British players is by making it cheaper and easier for them to so.

I would be interested to know who paid for those thousands of coaches in the top footballing nations. Should we be expecting the clubs to pay? the FA? the Premier League?