[Albion] For the Hughton out brigade

[GT49er]

It will clearly depend on whether we can stay in the premier league but I think it would be naive to think that the scouting team who have unearthed some quality recently, don't also have a finger on the pulse when it comes to future managers. I think it will be someone unexpected but with a decent track record as a coach. It will also likely be someone without premier league experience.

Would that be the game-changing but not goal scoring wonder-winger Jahanbaksh, or the recently left out altogether Montoya and Bernardo?

 

[Worried Man Blues]

Someone with an Iranian father and Colombian mother and a sense of humour

 

[Bold Seagull]

Interesting listening to Dyche last night after their draw at Chelsea. They got 12 points from 19 games up to Xmas and he admitted they’d tried to develop into a more open attacking side and paid the price for a poor run of form. Turn of the year they went back to complete basics and have achieved 28 points from the next 16. Dyche wasn’t a bad manager for those first 19 games, or his tactics wrong, it’s high level professional sport where there isn’t always a clear responsibility for why things go wrong. He clearly wants to still try to develop Burnley as a more attractive side, but will be limited by their squad and who they bring in.

 

[Bwian]

In spite of all that they still took the game to Chelsea, coming close to winning it a few times in the last 10 minutes. They looked dead and buried for a while but Dyche saw what was needed and acted accordingly. In January, and didn't play the 'relying on other teams to help us' card. They were not safe going into yesterday's game but still tried to win without being reckless.

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[Johnny RoastBeef]

Interesting listening to Dyche last night after their draw at Chelsea. They got 12 points from 19 games up to Xmas and he admitted they’d tried to develop into a more open attacking side and paid the price for a poor run of form. Turn of the year they went back to complete basics and have achieved 28 points from the next 16. Dyche wasn’t a bad manager for those first 19 games, or his tactics wrong, it’s high level professional sport where there isn’t always a clear responsibility for why things go wrong. He clearly wants to still try to develop Burnley as a more attractive side, but will be limited by their squad and who they bring in.

I want to believe that Defenders who move into management are naturally inclined to develop defensive teams. But Klopp and Poch were defenders so it's not as simple as that. Maybe they just prefer the beautiful game, rather than Dyche and Hughtons favoured version.

 

[Bold Seagull]

In spite of all that they still took the game to Chelsea, coming close to winning it a few times in the last 10 minutes. They looked dead and buried for a while but Dyche saw what was needed and acted accordingly. In January, and didn't play the 'relying on other teams to help us' card. They were not safe going into yesterday's game but still tried to win without being reckless.

Seriously? Did you watch a different game to me? They were excellent but no team all season has defended so much of a game with so many of their players inside their own box. Chelsea had some huge statistics of the most touches or possession inside an opposition penalty area. Burnley had 24% possession, managed 6 attempts on goal, 3 on target all from set pieces, from which both goals came.

Don't get me wrong, I watched the game and enjoyed every second of their frustrating of Chelsea, but Heaton was booked on 31mins for time wasting, the earliest booking for that of the season. They had a couple of hoofed up the field attacks toward the end, but they were mainly heading for the corner flag to see out time. Ashley Barnes was brilliant I thought though, while the Burnley defence got the plaudits for the scale of their rear guard action, thought Barnes was the most effective player on the park, from defending inside his own box to being a menace up front.

Burnley's run before Xmas was worse than our run now. They strung 12 games together losing 9, drawing 2 and winning 1. Their fortune, or whatever you want to call it is that it happened earlier enough to turn it around. We've stumbled into our poor form at exactly the wrong time. Sometimes there is no magic wand. Dyche wasn't a bad manager up to Xmas, but they got it all wrong for that period.

 

[JJ McClure]

I want to believe that Defenders who move into management are naturally inclined to develop defensive teams. But Klopp and Poch were defenders so it's not as simple as that. Maybe they just prefer the beautiful game, rather than Dyche and Hughtons favoured version.

Not sure its about the beautiful game, rather that Klopp and Poch have considerably more resources than Dyche and Hughton so possibly not a fair comparison.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I want to believe that Defenders who move into management are naturally inclined to develop defensive teams. But Klopp and Poch were defenders so it's not as simple as that. Maybe they just prefer the beautiful game, rather than Dyche and Hughtons favoured version.

Well Nuno Espírito Santo was a keeper, so not sure how to explain that one.

Whether we think Hughton should stay or not, I don't think he is a defensive manager, I think he is a pragmatist. The evidence is that we had 2 brilliant free scoring exciting football seasons under Hughton, when the previous 2 had been anything but, and the 2 before that were good, but not as exciting. When Hughton was sacked as Newcastle manager, there were only 4 Premier League teams that had scored more goals.

Dyche doesn't want to be labelled a defensive manager either, but as anther pragmatist, he went back to absolute basics at the turn of the year and turned around a wretched run of results. He said himself the reason they got into the mess they got into is that they tried to play a more expansive football and got punished.

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Well Nuno Espírito Santo was a keeper, so not sure how to explain that one.

He played under Mourinho, the archetypal pragmatist. Wolves pretend to be expansive, but really they set traps and catch you out with lightning quick counter attacks, very Jose Mourinho.

This is what we should be doing, but don't have the pace going forwards.

 

[casbom]

It is interesting that the real underlying story here is not whether who should take over from Hughton, but really if you give him the resources to at least be competitive, he will give you an attacking, entertaining team.
Evidence is there to back that up as well as mentioned above. When he had a top 6 budget in the Championship we witnessed arguably the best football we've had for 30 years.

Now I'm not advocating we give him a top 6 budget in this league but give him a mid table budget to see what he can do. Who knows, maybe that is the plan all along after a couple of seasons just doing enough to stay up and then up the budget the following season?

 

[Rugrat]

It is interesting that the real underlying story here is not whether who should take over from Hughton, but really if you give him the resources to at least be competitive, he will give you an attacking, entertaining team.
Evidence is there to back that up as well as mentioned above. When he had a top 6 budget in the Championship we witnessed arguably the best football we've had for 30 years.

Now I'm not advocating we give him a top 6 budget in this league but give him a mid table budget to see what he can do. Who knows, maybe that is the plan all along after a couple of seasons just doing enough to stay up and then up the budget the following season?

I struggle a little with comparing budgets amongst the 'also rans' because of a) the number of players developed via the youth/U23 set up, b) the varying length of contracts and c) when they were signed. I don't think it's as straightforward as adding the ammortised fees and wages of current squad (is that how it's done?)

Aren't our numbers much of a muchness, give or take, with most of fodder (bottom half)?

 

[casbom]

I struggle a little with comparing budgets amongst the 'also rans' because of a) the number of players developed via the youth/U23 set up, b) the varying length of contracts and c) when they were signed. I don't think it's as straightforward as adding the ammortised fees and wages of current squad (is that how it's done?)

Aren't our numbers much of a muchness, give or take, with most of fodder (bottom half)?

Maybe, I was going by what has been mentioned by others that we have a bottom 3 budget.

 

[John Byrnes Mullet]

Interesting listening to Dyche last night after their draw at Chelsea. They got 12 points from 19 games up to Xmas and he admitted they’d tried to develop into a more open attacking side and paid the price for a poor run of form. Turn of the year they went back to complete basics and have achieved 28 points from the next 16. Dyche wasn’t a bad manager for those first 19 games, or his tactics wrong, it’s high level professional sport where there isn’t always a clear responsibility for why things go wrong. He clearly wants to still try to develop Burnley as a more attractive side, but will be limited by their squad and who they bring in.

Burnley are solid at the back and can score a goal and the movement of the players from box to box last night was immense. We just don't have the ability to do that with the players we have. If we stay up then we need to change our style.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I struggle a little with comparing budgets amongst the 'also rans' because of a) the number of players developed via the youth/U23 set up, b) the varying length of contracts and c) when they were signed. I don't think it's as straightforward as adding the ammortised fees and wages of current squad (is that how it's done?)

Aren't our numbers much of a muchness, give or take, with most of fodder (bottom half)?

Average wage bills Premier League 2018/19
Rank Team Average annual wage per player
1 Manchester United £6,534,654
2 Manchester City £5,993,000
3 Chelsea £5,020,004
4 Liverpool £4,862,963
5 Arsenal £4,853,130
6 Tottenham Hotspur £3,515,778
7 Everton £3,242,690
8 West Ham £3,189,333
9 Crystal Palace £2,757,000
10 Leicester City £2,710,710
11 Southampton £2,669,333
12 Bournemouth £1,989,520
13 Watford £1,775,172
14 Wolves £1,757,600
15 Fulham £1,727,440
16 Brighton & Hove Albion £1,695,040
17 Newcastle United £1,650,133
18 Burnley £1,603,197
19 Huddersfield Town £1,238,000
20 Cardiff City £957,471

Cardiff over achieving. Southampton underachieving. Newcastle and Burnley have done well to be safe already. Our biggest problem is clearly the players that have increased that average, are most likely the ones who have largely underperformed.

 

[Justice]

Mmm Dyche went from a run of losses to telling his team to cheat, can’t believe the ref didn’t spot a fake head injury after a blatant hand ball. They are t much better than us really 2 more wins the over reaction oh here sometimes...

 

[Rugrat]

Average wage bills Premier League 2018/19
Rank Team Average annual wage per player
1 Manchester United £6,534,654
2 Manchester City £5,993,000
3 Chelsea £5,020,004
4 Liverpool £4,862,963
5 Arsenal £4,853,130
6 Tottenham Hotspur £3,515,778
7 Everton £3,242,690
8 West Ham £3,189,333
9 Crystal Palace £2,757,000
10 Leicester City £2,710,710
11 Southampton £2,669,333
12 Bournemouth £1,989,520
13 Watford £1,775,172
14 Wolves £1,757,600
15 Fulham £1,727,440
16 Brighton & Hove Albion £1,695,040
17 Newcastle United £1,650,133
18 Burnley £1,603,197
19 Huddersfield Town £1,238,000
20 Cardiff City £957,471

Cardiff over achieving. Southampton underachieving. Newcastle and Burnley have done well to be safe already. Our biggest problem is clearly the players that have increased that average, are most likely the ones who have largely underperformed.

I think I agree that last point. But I'm not sure that the £5K a week difference between us and Bournemouth (in 12th) is really the reason why there's such a difference in performance. Particulalry when you take out the reported £100K+ a week that Defoe is on it actually makes the numbers about the same.

There's a whole lot more to our insipid performances than the simple financial argument imo

 

[Bold Seagull]

Burnley are solid at the back and can score a goal and the movement of the players from box to box last night was immense. We just don't have the ability to do that with the players we have. If we stay up then we need to change our style.

I don't disagree, and it was the players they signed from the Championship, hungry, prepared to battle for every lost cause, that was the real difference for me in watching that game. I haven't seen the kind of commitment McNeill showed from Locadia, Jahanbakhsh or Izzy this season, and only fleetingly from March and Knockeart. Hendricks and Barnes were also very effective. Let's not dress it up, it was park the bus, then park another one in front, they did it very effectively though.

 

[crodonilson]

Plenty who would be interested in a top job like Brighton and plenty with excellent CV's but any better than Hughton?

Big Sam
Davey Moyes
Darren Moore
Alec McLeish
Carlos Carvahal
Gary Rowett
Alan Curbishley
Steve Cotterill
Aitor Karanka
Nigel Pearson
Billy Davies
Mark Hughes

 

[Rugrat]

If we stay up then we need to change our style.

or .... change the players to accomodate the style (lots of pace and energy to enable very quick breaks)

and whatever style we adopt we need to find footballers who know how to pass to one wearing the same shirt!

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

He played under Mourinho, the archetypal pragmatist. Wolves pretend to be expansive, but really they set traps and catch you out with lightning quick counter attacks, very Jose Mourinho.

This is what we should be doing, but don't have the pace going forwards.

Exactly. Stylistically they're a very different offensive team than us though. They're so much more vertical than we are and a part of that is pace, but they're much more intelligent in the press too.