British Bulldog
The great escape
- Feb 6, 2006
- 10,974
Are you suggesting we take the incontinental approach?
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for the England bedwetters
- Thread starter beorhthelm
- Start date
Are you suggesting we take the incontinental approach?
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,026
- Thread starter
- #22
yep. as do all those saying the Engaldn dropping out is a scandal, its all the fault of money/sky/coaching/whatever and somthing must be done. someones made a suggestion of that something, it will affect clubs below Premiership, is that the answer? or something else, it seems we are short on concreate solutions coming from the floor.
User removed 4
New member
Stuart pearce wasnt a central defender, he was a left back.
it is not all about us
the team at the other end come to win
and yes they can play a bit too
historically we have not got a great record in international competitions
1 final at European and world level
no real surprise we did not make it out of a tough group
we normally struggle out of relatively easy groups
big surprise about Costa Rica
maybe performances have dropped since less England players are playing in the top flight
but not by much
I still remember not qualifying in 74
we just have not that been that good compared to the very best
what can we do about it ?
coaching particularly at youth level
I think we need to nourish academies
compulsory places for academy graduates in first team squads
growing incrementally until they reach half
restrictions on any payments to youth players and parents
this would also be a better way than FFP to deliver a fairer competition
than one based on either rich owners or revenue
BUT
we are still going to be faced with skillful well motivated coached and managed opponents
some of which have historically had better players and teams than us
the team at the other end come to win
and yes they can play a bit too
historically we have not got a great record in international competitions
1 final at European and world level
no real surprise we did not make it out of a tough group
we normally struggle out of relatively easy groups
big surprise about Costa Rica
maybe performances have dropped since less England players are playing in the top flight
but not by much
I still remember not qualifying in 74
we just have not that been that good compared to the very best
what can we do about it ?
coaching particularly at youth level
I think we need to nourish academies
compulsory places for academy graduates in first team squads
growing incrementally until they reach half
restrictions on any payments to youth players and parents
this would also be a better way than FFP to deliver a fairer competition
than one based on either rich owners or revenue
BUT
we are still going to be faced with skillful well motivated coached and managed opponents
some of which have historically had better players and teams than us
E
Eric Youngs Contact Lense
Guest
I am convinced that it i smore about fear that the players have. Fear about the consequences of losing, fear of the reaction of the media and fans, maybe fear about their worth...that said, in my lifetime, relatively recent history is in many ways better, and it is not a recent problem we have had at major tournaments..
I was born in 1969, so 1974 would have been the earliest memory...we didn;t qualify, then 1978, we didn't qualify...I dont remember us doing anything significant in Euro champs at that time (did we even take part??)
At just about every tournament since we have been knocked out by failing to beat a team in and around the top 10 : Spain 82, Argentina 86, Germany 90, didn't qualify 94.. etc etc and it is the same in the Euros. Even in 1990 we were arguably lucky to get through to the semi final, although perhaps unlucky in that match in similar ways that we were this time around..The reaction of the press this time just confuses me...we have been told that by the FA we want to build for tournaments in 2020/22..we have screamed to give youth a chance, let them gain experience. And yet, the headlines are about "flops" "Hodgson resign"....players having to apologise...etc etc and this with supposedly the lowest expectation we can have..the young players will simply take on the fear, concern, inhibited football of previous generations, because we cannot simply accept, and maintain a sense of where we are in international terms (and that is very far removed from where the PL is in global terms)..pretty good at qualifying now but not as strong as others, but will not change because we insist on telling them how disappointig they are..none of us would enjoy going to work etc if that was the probable reaction we had a 50/50 chance of getting each day..Let them come back, excited abut the experience, excited about the future and the prospect of going further next time..
I was born in 1969, so 1974 would have been the earliest memory...we didn;t qualify, then 1978, we didn't qualify...I dont remember us doing anything significant in Euro champs at that time (did we even take part??)
At just about every tournament since we have been knocked out by failing to beat a team in and around the top 10 : Spain 82, Argentina 86, Germany 90, didn't qualify 94.. etc etc and it is the same in the Euros. Even in 1990 we were arguably lucky to get through to the semi final, although perhaps unlucky in that match in similar ways that we were this time around..The reaction of the press this time just confuses me...we have been told that by the FA we want to build for tournaments in 2020/22..we have screamed to give youth a chance, let them gain experience. And yet, the headlines are about "flops" "Hodgson resign"....players having to apologise...etc etc and this with supposedly the lowest expectation we can have..the young players will simply take on the fear, concern, inhibited football of previous generations, because we cannot simply accept, and maintain a sense of where we are in international terms (and that is very far removed from where the PL is in global terms)..pretty good at qualifying now but not as strong as others, but will not change because we insist on telling them how disappointig they are..none of us would enjoy going to work etc if that was the probable reaction we had a 50/50 chance of getting each day..Let them come back, excited abut the experience, excited about the future and the prospect of going further next time..
Bladders
Twats everywhere
Coaching and culture at youth level is the issue for me, not enough quality makes the grade so those that do become like gold dust and over inflated transfer fees are wanted fro them, so Premier League teams and now Championship teams look abroad as its cheaper, supply and demand.
55% of Serie A players are Italian and they've bombed out as well, so the 'too many foreign players' argument isn't the reason, they're only here playing in England cause we're not producing enough at the grass roots level .
Its not just an England problem but a British one, look how poor the other home nations are as well.
55% of Serie A players are Italian and they've bombed out as well, so the 'too many foreign players' argument isn't the reason, they're only here playing in England cause we're not producing enough at the grass roots level .
Its not just an England problem but a British one, look how poor the other home nations are as well.
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
What I hear is a sense that it's a combination of reasons why England continue to perform below many people's expectations. People are smart enough to realise that it isn't just one thing, or just another thing, and so there isn't a single silver bullet that will fix all of our woes. Yes, young players benefit from an increased number of coaches, more time to learn basic skills and techniques rather being thrust into competition, more artificial playing surfaces and small pitches. Yes, the Premier League, with its current priorities, is not optimal for developing young English players. It's also true that it would be better if more English players played abroad and broadened their footballing experience. And yes, it would be better if English players got more acclimatised to playing in the country of a major tournament, especially hot countries such as Brazil.
I think people are receptive to hearing ideas about how to resolve these, but not when they are as destructive as Dyke's proposal. He wants to make lower league football a plaything of Premier League clubs. All that will simply do is increase the power of Premier League clubs and destroy the heart of the lower leagues. He thinks increasing the power of Premier League clubs will increase their ability to develop young English players but we have 22 years of evidence that developing young English players is not a priority of the Premier League.
Premier league is good mainly because it is full of great foreign players
Premier league get foreign players because it has loads of money, and there is a shortage of English talent
There is a shortage of English talent because there is inadequate coaching at all levels (including schools)
Because there is a shortage of English talent, clubs will buy overseas players
Until grass roots are addressed, English clubs will struggle to develop their own players as there is an insufficient stream of suitable kids going from school/local clubs into academies, and in many cases clubs academies seem to be poor anyway, the prem will keep buying foreign players and England as a country will struggle
Do I have a solution ? No. Were loose.
Premier league get foreign players because it has loads of money, and there is a shortage of English talent
There is a shortage of English talent because there is inadequate coaching at all levels (including schools)
Because there is a shortage of English talent, clubs will buy overseas players
Until grass roots are addressed, English clubs will struggle to develop their own players as there is an insufficient stream of suitable kids going from school/local clubs into academies, and in many cases clubs academies seem to be poor anyway, the prem will keep buying foreign players and England as a country will struggle
Do I have a solution ? No. Were loose.
father_and_son
Well-known member
Sort out the English game because the English game needs fixing, not because we need an England team... that will come naturally when we resolve the current issues surrounding the domestic leagues...
Too much money at the top of the game, too little at lower levels.
Too little emphasis placed on the game at the youngest ages for "normal" kids not already snapped up by the academies.
The elite clubs (with the cash) grabbing the developing talent and effectively paying them NOT to play just so another team can't have them.
The game is not being played as a sport anymore, but as an entertainment industry. The difference is like that between WWE and Olympic greco-roman wrestlers.
One are the elite of their sport, training to extremes and competing as sportsmen for the love of the competition.
The other are overpaid entertainers, with no interest in "sport", just improving their media profile while they rake in the cash from the mindless TV audiences.
The PL created too many of the later for us ever to be able to select a team of the former capable of delivering "world class" performances.
Is there a way back from here? Not with a weak-willed, toothless organisation like the FA in charge.
Too much money at the top of the game, too little at lower levels.
Too little emphasis placed on the game at the youngest ages for "normal" kids not already snapped up by the academies.
The elite clubs (with the cash) grabbing the developing talent and effectively paying them NOT to play just so another team can't have them.
The game is not being played as a sport anymore, but as an entertainment industry. The difference is like that between WWE and Olympic greco-roman wrestlers.
One are the elite of their sport, training to extremes and competing as sportsmen for the love of the competition.
The other are overpaid entertainers, with no interest in "sport", just improving their media profile while they rake in the cash from the mindless TV audiences.
The PL created too many of the later for us ever to be able to select a team of the former capable of delivering "world class" performances.
Is there a way back from here? Not with a weak-willed, toothless organisation like the FA in charge.
I really not buy this. The players do not have the range of qualities required to be elite athletes...simple.
pasty
A different kind of pasty
Absolutely spot on with that point. The media in general have really pissed me off in their reaction to this World Cup. I must say I a not overly disappointed about what happened. Thought we played pretty well against Italy in a very tight game that if everyone is honest, could have gone either way. Against Uruguay we lost to one outstanding player and a big mistake by Gerrard, and the Costa Rica match was a dead rubber by which time I'm fairly sure the players just wanted to get the heck out of Brazil.
The media got what they clamoured for this tournament, in as much as a young squad and attacking play and still the team and manager get vilified. Shearer and Waddle especially pissed me off last night, basically saying the team are, and never will be, as good as it was when they played.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
This building for 2022 is a load of bollocks, you play every tournament to win and worry about the next one when it's time, the manager gets a 2 year contract to qualify us and see us through to our best possible placing, all he does is pick the best team available and work out a system that maximises what he has each match.
Seems Hodgson is the only one not doing the honourable thing and resigning.
Seems Hodgson is the only one not doing the honourable thing and resigning.
stripeyshark
All-Time Best Defence
- Dec 20, 2011
- 2,294
We did produce someone of that quality, and played him out of position on the left. No, I'm not talking about Rooney.
One thing that the FA can easily recify...
UEFA A Coaching Licence;
England; £2500-£3500
Spain; £435
Germany; 985
Why is it FIVE times more expensive than Spain? It'll get more coaches into the game which is where we sorely lack.
You also have the issue that many managers get jobs simply because they've "played the game" and have a good reputation as a player rather than one who has new innovative coaching ideas. As a result, young players learn to play in the same rigid tactical situations as their out of date managers.
There are some exceptions obviously (hopefully Hyypia will be one!).
UEFA A Coaching Licence;
England; £2500-£3500
Spain; £435
Germany; 985
Why is it FIVE times more expensive than Spain? It'll get more coaches into the game which is where we sorely lack.
You also have the issue that many managers get jobs simply because they've "played the game" and have a good reputation as a player rather than one who has new innovative coaching ideas. As a result, young players learn to play in the same rigid tactical situations as their out of date managers.
There are some exceptions obviously (hopefully Hyypia will be one!).
Agree. Some of us are old enough to have been through this cycle a few times already. It is utter rubbish if you think this new crop are any better than the previous teams. When Germany put out a very young team in 2006 they came 3rd. That is what I call potential. How on earth anyone can extrapolate out from losing to a lack-lustre Italy, Uruquay and drawing with Costa Rica in a dead-rubber to doing well in 2022 is beyond me. The current team look very average at best.
DarrenFreemansPerm
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Stopped reading the moment I read that pathetic expression.
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
Arguably the golden generation of England did 1/4 finals at best and their potential was far in excess of what we have now, play each tournament as it comes, planning for the future doesn't work in international tournaments unlike club football
It is pathetic.
And of course where do those 'bedwetting' about the England 'betwetters' fit into it all ?
Garry Nelson's Left Foot
Well-known member
My hope for this team is as a collective rather than on an individual basis. The last group of England players individually were excellent players. They stalled as a team and rarely if ever reached the sum of their parts let alone exceeded them. That's what frustrated me time and again with them.
This new group of players aren't as good individually as the last lot. I'm well aware of that, but what I hope to see is a team emerge. One that fulfills its potential whatever that may be. I'd love to see them become a team that is or exceeds the sum of its parts.
That's all I want. I saw baby steps towards that over these three games. Not as much progress as I'd have liked but some progress at least. Could we make more progress with a different manager? Maybe. Is this team ever going to develop into a world beater? I'd be surprised if they did. Will it become a team that maximises its potential and plays half decent football? I very much hope, and think, it will.
The fact that Germany were able to field a young team and finish third is another debate. One relating to how the game is run, quality of coaching and so on. It's not this England teams fault that they're not as good as the Germans or previous generations and it does them no good to be treated as such. We need to accept their/our current limitations and work on ways to narrow the gap to the better nations.